Pianoteq - Looks Like new Modelled Piano

[Boulotaur2024]

Personally I am using the Art Vista steinway samples, I have compared the 2 on identicle midi's and find the Pianoteq to be very clearly the loser as far as realism. It of course is still impressive for being fully moddled but as its been said, I dont believe it comptetes with some of the really nice sample libraries.

Of course it doesn't, nobody's saying you should delete all your sample librarries now that Pianoteq is here. But realize it's a V1.0, and the sound coming out of this is already very impressive, given it's entirely modeled. I don't know if you're fully aware of the beauty of the technology behind this, it's the first time* somebody does a PM piano. You probably know how challenging PM can be, designing a piano PM is even more... (I didn't think it would be possible this early by the way).

Above all, as aMused pointed out, CPU optimisation in Pianoteq is already very good, so it's really encouraging as for the future of this VSTi, plenty of CPU left to emulate more closely sympathetic string resonance, hammer action, dynamic phase variation....

This is groundbreaking stuff, and only the beginning. I'm glad somebody dared to try piano modelling. Keep up the good work !

* Ok, looks like Klaviermodell was here before : )

[Motion]

Hi aMUSEd It appears that the Pianoteq presets themselves are major re workings and tweakings to the dynamic model itself in order to specifically recreate these Piano types,these other deeper controls are hidden from the user.

It appears that our modifications to these presets themselves can only be saved and recalled with Fxps via the host at the moment.Time for a FR I think.

EDIT:Just seen your post Niclas after writing this one,is it not possible to make the GUI support this type of preset management of the preset so to speak?

FR: Modartt is it possible to store and recall our own presets/banks of the model presets within/via the program and name them please.Thanks.

[wakax]

you should also try
Klaviermodell v1.0 .ens for Reaktor
By gabriel mulzer

http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=3727

[aMUSEd]

Personally I am using the Art Vista steinway samples, I have compared the 2 on identicle midi's and find the Pianoteq to be very clearly the loser as far as realism. It of course is still impressive for being fully moddled but as its been said, I dont believe it comptetes with some of the really nice sample libraries.

Of course it doesn't, nobody's saying you should delete all your sample librarries now that Pianoteq is here. But realize it's a V1.0, and the sound coming out of this is already very impressive, given it's entirely modeled. I don't know if you're fully aware of the beauty of the technology behind this, it's the first time* somebody does a PM piano. You probably know how challenging PM can be, designing a piano PM is even more... (I didn't think it would be possible this early by the way).

Above all, as aMused pointed out, CPU optimisation in Pianoteq is already very good, so it's really encouraging as for the future of this VSTi, plenty of CPU left to emulate more closely sympathetic string resonance, hammer action, dynamic phase variation....

This is groundbreaking stuff, and only the beginning. I'm glad somebody dared to try piano modelling. Keep up the good work !

* Ok, looks like Klaviermodell was here before : )

It is groundbreaking - I've been wanting something like this a long time (btw - I had the Reaktor ens Wakax mentions since it came out and there have been other Piano models such as in Tassman and String Studio 2 and also 6 String for Creamware was up till now probably the best but this is streets ahead in terms of playability, expressiveness and sound). I find it totally incomprehensible how people can blithely and dismissively compare it to sampled piano's that have been in a process of stepping over each other's achievements in terms of realism (and size) for many years now with something that is such new technology - this is a huge step forward for PC based music - some perspective is needed I think.

[Yossarian]

I find it totally incomprehensible how people can blithely and dismissively compare it to sampled piano's that have been in a process of stepping over each other's achievements in terms of realism (and size) for many years now with something that is such new technology - this is a huge step forward for PC based music - some perspective is needed I think.

This is exactly what I felt when Synful Orchestra was introduced and people were (unfavourably) comparing it to sample libraries. It's interesting to see many of the same comments reappearing now - just like with Synful, people seem to like the playability and lifelike quality of the instrument but not the basic sound.

Has anyone tried layering this piano with a sampled one? I find this works nicely with Synful, so it might be worth a try here, too.

/Yoss

[aMUSEd]

I find it totally incomprehensible how people can blithely and dismissively compare it to sampled piano's that have been in a process of stepping over each other's achievements in terms of realism (and size) for many years now with something that is such new technology - this is a huge step forward for PC based music - some perspective is needed I think.

This is exactly what I felt when Synful Orchestra was introduced and people were (unfavourably) comparing it to sample libraries. It's interesting to see many of the same comments reappearing now - just like with Synful, people seem to like the playability and lifelike quality of the instrument but not the basic sound.

Has anyone tried layering this piano with a sampled one? I find this works nicely with Synful, so it might be worth a try here, too.

/Yoss

Yeah - I recall writing the same about Synful too - people who didn't get it were often trying to use it as a realtime app as well instead of enabling the delay button which is what made all the difference. I think some people can be too quick to judge something so new and need to chill a bit.

[djdorian]

Personally I am using the Art Vista steinway samples, I have compared the 2 on identicle midi's and find the Pianoteq to be very clearly the loser as far as realism. It of course is still impressive for being fully moddled but as its been said, I dont believe it comptetes with some of the really nice sample libraries.

Of course it doesn't, nobody's saying you should delete all your sample librarries now that Pianoteq is here. But realize it's a V1.0, and the sound coming out of this is already very impressive, given it's entirely modeled. I don't know if you're fully aware of the beauty of the technology behind this, it's the first time* somebody does a PM piano. You probably know how challenging PM can be, designing a piano PM is even more... (I didn't think it would be possible this early by the way).

Above all, as aMused pointed out, CPU optimisation in Pianoteq is already very good, so it's really encouraging as for the future of this VSTi, plenty of CPU left to emulate more closely sympathetic string resonance, hammer action, dynamic phase variation....

This is groundbreaking stuff, and only the beginning. I'm glad somebody dared to try piano modelling. Keep up the good work !

* Ok, looks like Klaviermodell was here before : )

It is groundbreaking - I've been wanting something like this a long time (btw - I had the Reaktor ens Wakax mentions since it came out and there have been other Piano models such as in Tassman and String Studio 2 and also 6 String for Creamware was up till now probably the best but this is streets ahead in terms of playability, expressiveness and sound). I find it totally incomprehensible how people can blithely and dismissively compare it to sampled piano's that have been in a process of stepping over each other's achievements in terms of realism (and size) for many years now with something that is such new technology - this is a huge step forward for PC based music - some perspective is needed I think.

Agree.

[Jongleur]

Does anyone else think that there is just something wrong with a piano with as many parameters as a synth? (Personally, I'd rather use a sampled piano, then play with the eq and effects.) I understand there might be a tech breakthrough here, but what does it matter if it doesn't sound good?

[ZioKiller]

I haven't read 10 pages of posts, so I don't know others say about this plugin but, well, i think it's beautiful, amazing, awesome, incredibly real!
However I'm not gonna buying it because of the price. Not that 249 euros is much, but I think that there are other amazing softwares out there (read JamStix, EnergyXT, Wusik, etc.) that do not cost that much.
I think 99$ would be a fair and attractive price.

I hope they will launch a group buy or a promotional price. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the trial version

[Jongleur]

I haven't read 10 pages of posts, so I don't know others say about this plugin but, well, i think it's beautiful, amazing, awesome, incredibly real!

These are words that I would use to describe MrTramp and MrRay, but not PianoTeq.

[eduardo_b]

So far to me it doesn't sound like a real piano, but I think it sounds quite cool as its own easily manipulated piano-like thing.

That's the essence of what I find weird with some of the posts here. Far too enthusiastic in my opinion. Why spend so much money (€259 is about $335) for a modelled piano when you can get any number of excellent piano romplers that really do sound like the real thing. I would expect a modelled VSTi to be much less, not as much or more. If one has insufficient drive space for a sample library of 25 to 40 gigs (although I think the very nice Piano Expansion Tank is under a gig), I suppose this might be an alternative. But, really, why would I want to spend that kind of money on piano-like instead of the real deal unless I don't want the sounds of a real instrument. I don't get it.

[Stupid American Pig]

I dunno, I think that the pianoteq sounded pretty incredible. I also really liked the random feature, it came up with some very cool sounds. yes it could be improved, I cannot believe how close this really sounds.

[Yossarian]

Does anyone else think that there is just something wrong with a piano with as many parameters as a synth? (Personally, I'd rather use a sampled piano, then play with the eq and effects.) I understand there might be a tech breakthrough here, but what does it matter if it doesn't sound good?

I completely disagree. This is exactly what makes this technology so exciting and I'm a bit surprised that people don't see it. What's so cool about physical modeling is that it can be used to emulate existing instruments but also extrapolated into instruments that have never existed (and probably never will exist) in physical form.

So what if it hasn't 100% nailed the sound of a real piano? It's the first attempt and it's definitely good enough to serve as proof of concept. Personally, I didn't think modeling had come far enough to produce a piano this good - I'm deeply impressed. I've heard other attempts at modeling a piano - e.g. Harm Visser's experimental stuff for the Oasys PCI platform - but they were rather crude and ultimately not very piano-like. This is already on a completely different level and it can only get better.

There are so many interesting things going on in this field right now - Guido's sax/trumpet models (and of course his electric pianos), Arne Wallander's (arwa) orchestral synth, Eric Lindemann's Synful and now this piano. Can I have some really good percussion and guitar (not really impressed with the offerings on that front so far), too? It's the only thing missing at this point.

How can anyone not be excited about all this?

/Yoss

[Yossarian]

Why spend so much money (€259 is about $335) for a modelled piano when you can get any number of excellent piano romplers that really do sound like the real thing. I would expect a modelled VSTi to be much less, not as much or more.

Again, I have to disagree (surprise, surprise). Sampling a piano takes lots of time, effort and recording expertise. It's an achievement, to be sure - but it doesn't really break any new ground. Pianoteq is a technical breakthrough - these people have come up with something completely new and unique. It's probably been in development for years - why should they give it away at a bargain price?

If one has insufficient drive space for a sample library of 25 to 40 gigs (although I think the very nice Piano Expansion Tank is under a gig), I suppose this might be an alternative. But, really, why would I want to spend that kind of money on piano-like instead of the real deal unless I don't want the sounds of a real instrument. I don't get it.

Maybe because it will give you a good piano emulation (give these guys another year of development and they'll make a believer out of you) AND a universe of other sounds which you can't get from a sample set?

This really is déja vu - just as with Synful, people are so focused on the small shortcomings that they can't see how close we are already and what potential there is.

/Yoss

[aMUSEd]

How can anyone not be excited about all this?

/Yoss

I am

I feel like Ziokiller - it's a great step forwards in technology and does sound great but I can't afford it right now

(Not saying it's not worth it though - I think it probably is a fair price)*



*not that a promotional offer wouldn't be nice