Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[exmatproton]

Overall Rayblaster combines some quite unique Osc and filter features and i guess many people still did not fully understand yet how it is propgrammed properly. Not really the best choice for someone that wants to start into doing sound design. It is one of the synths were it is highly recommended to read the manual if you want to do your own patches with it.

Actually, Rayblaster isn't filtering anything. It changes the wave itself, before it hits any filter. It is fun, different and awesome to play with, but there is no filter on Rayblaster. Still, one of my favourite T2 synths, that's for sure. Really an unique little beast.

[Ingonator]

Overall Rayblaster combines some quite unique Osc and filter features and i guess many people still did not fully understand yet how it is propgrammed properly. Not really the best choice for someone that wants to start into doing sound design. It is one of the synths were it is highly recommended to read the manual if you want to do your own patches with it.

Actually, Rayblaster isn't filtering anything. It changes the wave itself, before it hits any filter. It is fun, different and awesome to play with, but there is no filter on Rayblaster. Still, one of my favourite T2 synths, that's for sure. Really an unique little beast.

The point is that the Formant knob acts like using a Cutoff knob in a filter no matter how it is done technically. With the proper waveforms you are also able to mimic the filters of certain synths within some limits.
FWIW the synthesis method used in Rayblaster is called IMS = Impulse Modeling Syntheis.

This is from the Rayblaster manual:

Where's my filter?

IMS works in a way that does not need a separate filter section, its oscillators can authentically mimic the filter sound of other synthesizers, using one of the factory impulse presets or by simply importing one of your own impulses.
Not only is RayBlaster capable of modeling the sound of existing filters - it's also possible to create completely new artificial 'fantasy' filters exclusive to Rayblaster, making its filter capabilities virtually unlimited. Your own custom Rayblaster filter impulse responses can be created very easily, you'll find a step-by-step description in "Chapter 7 - Create your own custom Rayblaster filter impulse response' of this manual."

Maybe Rayblaster could not always "authentically" mimic (like quited above) certain filters but wihin some limits you could come close to it. With complex waveforms or waveforms not created using a filter Rayblaster will still create a filter response but one that is totally new and not known from existing filters.

In Linplug Spectral you could draw your own filter response so somehow the result could be comparable while it is done in a different way.

You could also check those 2 threads in the official Tone2 forum that i created a while ago (more than 3 years ago):
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1446.0

The first is about free additional waveforms and the second about the Ressynthesis feature. A kind of short tutorial about the Resynthesis) while the first thread includes a small tutorial about how craeting your own filter impulse responses that could then mimic certain filters (or create totally new ones).

As mentioned in that second thread the Formant knob acts differently when using the Resyntheis feature opposing to simply loading waveforms in the oscillators.

Here is a PDF i had made back in 2013 (also see the first thread linked above) about how Rayblaster tries to mimic the 12dB filter of Saurus with some Resonance added within the Saurus filter (frequency content resulting at certain values of the Formant knob in Rayblaster):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... es%201.pdf

[exmatproton]

Overall Rayblaster combines some quite unique Osc and filter features and i guess many people still did not fully understand yet how it is propgrammed properly. Not really the best choice for someone that wants to start into doing sound design. It is one of the synths were it is highly recommended to read the manual if you want to do your own patches with it.

Actually, Rayblaster isn't filtering anything. It changes the wave itself, before it hits any filter. It is fun, different and awesome to play with, but there is no filter on Rayblaster. Still, one of my favourite T2 synths, that's for sure. Really an unique little beast.

The point is that the Formant knob acts like using a Cutoff knob in a filter no matter how it is done technically. With the proper waveforms you are also able to mimic the filters of certain synths within some limits.
FWIW the synthesis method used in Rayblaster is called IMS = Impulse Modeling Syntheis.

Why do i always get the feeling you don't get me....

By quoting me and trying to explain the obvious (i own Rayblaster for quite some time and used it several times on several albums (never had to read the manual btw...)) it looks like you think i don't get it. To be perfectly clear; When i respond in a KVR thread, it is usually because i want to add something (like info on the filtering on Rayblaster), i disagree about something, or because i don't know something. Your point about Rayblaster is (i hope) well known by the users. I was merely quoting you because you talked about filters, which Rayblaster don't use;

Overall Rayblaster combines some quite unique Osc and filter features.....

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The point is that the Formant knob acts like using a Cutoff knob in a filter...

Well, no. The formant knob can act like a filter. It is by no means a filter knob. If you set up the harmonic control higher then -1, the formant knob does stuff a filter won't do at all. When you set the harmonic content to -2 for instance, it can indeed act like a cutoff knob.

====

But let's get back on topic.

[chk071]

Well, after being quite hyped in the beginning, i decided to rest the enthusiasm a few days, and ultimately fiddled for 2 or 3 hours with Largo yesterday, and decided to pass on Icarus after that. Icarus is good, yeah, but i really prefer Largo sound wise. Really, i can create such massive soundscapes, and a "wall of sound" with it, and such a big variety of different sound, which always sound musical, that i just don't get this out of Icarus in the same way. I would think for people who already have Largo, Icarus could be a good complement though, because it simply has a different approach, with the waveform modulators, or modifiers, and it also has a different sound. But, for me, i already spent too much money lately for my hobby, so i won't shell out another 149 € for something i might, or might not use a lot. Already have a lot of stuff, which just has to be used now *tries to convince himself*.

Nonetheless, Icarus is definitely the best Tone2 synth for me so far. It's just that i like Largo better. I think it's possible the most underrated synth, at least here. I figure the eLicenser copy protection might have to do with it. It can't be the sound for sure, as it really offers incredible sound quality. Anyway, back to Icarus.

[Ingonator]

So back on topic then:

After using Icarus for some months (since the beta strated..) and doing a bunch of patches with it it took some time of from it (which sometimes is a good way to get new ideas) and am now back doing new patches.
Now i even more realized that Icarus realy offers so much that it will take ages to fully expore what is possible with it.

At the moment i am experimenting with certaion Morph modes like e.g. the Phase Distotion ones to see what i could get from those besides what i alraedy got in a few patches tat i dd in the past.

[Ingonator]

Nonetheless, Icarus is definitely the best Tone2 synth for me so far. It's just that i like Largo better. I think it's possible the most underrated synth, at least here. I figure the eLicenser copy protection might have to do with it. It can't be the sound for sure, as it really offers incredible sound quality. Anyway, back to Icarus.

Well the fact that some people here are against using eLicenser does not mean that this is a common opinion with most users out there. Actually quite a lot of Largo zusers seem to be out there,

For me Largo and Icarus are quite different (both feature and sound wise) and both are really worth using them. IMO it could be worth having both.

[chk071]

Nonetheless, Icarus is definitely the best Tone2 synth for me so far. It's just that i like Largo better. I think it's possible the most underrated synth, at least here. I figure the eLicenser copy protection might have to do with it. It can't be the sound for sure, as it really offers incredible sound quality. Anyway, back to Icarus.

Well the fact that some people here are against using eLicenser does not mean that this is a common opinion with most users out there. Actually quite a lot of Largo zusers seem to be out there.

Totally agree with you. Forums are usually not at all representative for what's going on "out there".

[exmatproton]

Well, after being quite hyped in the beginning, i decided to rest the enthusiasm a few days, and ultimately fiddled for 2 or 3 hours with Largo yesterday, and decided to pass on Icarus after that. Icarus is good, yeah, but i really prefer Largo sound wise. Really, i can create such massive soundscapes, and a "wall of sound" with it, and such a big variety of different sound, which always sound musical, that i just don't get this out of Icarus in the same way. I would think for people who already have Largo, Icarus could be a good complement though, because it simply has a different approach, with the waveform modulators, or modifiers, and it also has a different sound. But, for me, i already spent too much money lately for my hobby, so i won't shell out another 149 € for something i might, or might not use a lot. Already have a lot of stuff, which just has to be used now *tries to convince himself*.

Nonetheless, Icarus is definitely the best Tone2 synth for me so far. It's just that i like Largo better. I think it's possible the most underrated synth, at least here. I figure the eLicenser copy protection might have to do with it. It can't be the sound for sure, as it really offers incredible sound quality. Anyway, back to Icarus.

Largo is amazing as well. I find myself using both synths together (also with CODEX and Nave) and they all sound very different. They somehow compliment eachother in a pretty awesome way

There are some minor niggles with Icarus a.t.m. though;

*I really miss a coarse (pitch) knob at the OSC's. I know i can use matrix slots for that, but it seems only logical to have those at the OSC sections, and not have to use up matrix slots for coarse pitching.

*I would love to see filter panning. So a pan knob per filter. Really miss those. Again, it is possible by other means, like routing (Ingo, don't you start), but this isn't very efficiënt and flexible.

*I would like to have auto tab selection disabled. I had multiple situations where i was editing the wrong lfo/osc due to this auto tabbing. Very annoying.

I have added these requests at the T2 forum.

[chk071]

Yep, after all, it's also the small niggles which influenced my decision. Apart from what you listed, the lack of stereo spread control, 3 LFO's a bit slim, the effects lack a couple of controls i'd like them to have... unfortunately, it's mostly the same with the Tone2 synths, they always lack the one or the other thing, or are generally a bit cumbersome, because you have to use workaround, for basic functions. Icarus is a big step forward in that regard, but again, there are things i'm missing. Maybe next time.

[foosnark]

Going through the presets, not yet trying much in the way of tweaking myself -- it is very FM-ish. While I was noodling on it my spouse commented on just how 80s most of it sounded. For a supposedly revolutionary new synthesis model it doesn't really seem to bring anything new to the table. There were a few standout patches, but I'm not sure they were the kind I'd actually use.

That said, the sound is quite good -- probably the best Tone2 synth so far, and lacking in whatever it is about the last several Tone2 synths that turned me off.

I'll explore sound design with it a bit and see if I can turn it to evil, but honestly I don't like the UI much and it doesn't seem welcoming at first glance.

[Ingonator]

After alraedy publishing a video about the Arpeggiator (in the last last week) Markus from Tone2 now also published a new video about the filter section in Icarus (in that video you could also hear his voice and see him playing on a keyboard controller):

[exmatproton]

Going through the presets, not yet trying much in the way of tweaking myself -- it is very FM-ish. While I was noodling on it my spouse commented on just how 80s most of it sounded. For a supposedly revolutionary new synthesis model it doesn't really seem to bring anything new to the table. There were a few standout patches, but I'm not sure they were the kind I'd actually use.

That said, the sound is quite good -- probably the best Tone2 synth so far, and lacking in whatever it is about the last several Tone2 synths that turned me off.

I'll explore sound design with it a bit and see if I can turn it to evil, but honestly I don't like the UI much and it doesn't seem welcoming at first glance.

edit; deleted the examples

[fisherKing]

Going through the presets, not yet trying much in the way of tweaking myself -- it is very FM-ish. While I was noodling on it my spouse commented on just how 80s most of it sounded. For a supposedly revolutionary new synthesis model it doesn't really seem to bring anything new to the table. There were a few standout patches, but I'm not sure they were the kind I'd actually use.

That said, the sound is quite good -- probably the best Tone2 synth so far, and lacking in whatever it is about the last several Tone2 synths that turned me off.

I'll explore sound design with it a bit and see if I can turn it to evil, but honestly I don't like the UI much and it doesn't seem welcoming at first glance.

I made (fairly quickly) some presets.

https://soundcloud.com/exmatproton/test001

https://soundcloud.com/exmatproton/test002

https://soundcloud.com/exmatproton/test003

---

Could i use other synths to do something similar? Yeah, probably Nevertheless, it was quite fun to get to these (simple) results with Icarus.

none of your soundcloud links open anything (at least, for me)...

have been using icarus for months now, and love it. it's in my core group of synth plugins (about 5, out of the 15 or so i own).

[exmatproton]

Going through the presets, not yet trying much in the way of tweaking myself -- it is very FM-ish. While I was noodling on it my spouse commented on just how 80s most of it sounded. For a supposedly revolutionary new synthesis model it doesn't really seem to bring anything new to the table. There were a few standout patches, but I'm not sure they were the kind I'd actually use.

That said, the sound is quite good -- probably the best Tone2 synth so far, and lacking in whatever it is about the last several Tone2 synths that turned me off.

I'll explore sound design with it a bit and see if I can turn it to evil, but honestly I don't like the UI much and it doesn't seem welcoming at first glance.

I made (fairly quickly) some presets.

https://soundcloud.com/exmatproton/test001

https://soundcloud.com/exmatproton/test002

https://soundcloud.com/exmatproton/test003

---

Could i use other synths to do something similar? Yeah, probably Nevertheless, it was quite fun to get to these (simple) results with Icarus.

none of your soundcloud links open anything (at least, for me)...

have been using icarus for months now, and love it. it's in my core group of synth plugins (about 5, out of the 15 or so i own).

Sorry, wrong permissions. Should be fixed now.

[foosnark]

Interesting examples. I'll definitely try to spend some time with it when I have a chance to.