FX Bundles

[M'Snah]

Ohmforce and Audiodamage and PSP (Nitro+delays) for FX, and you definitely want PSP Vintage Warmer.
Kjaerhus and Voxengo and maybe PSP (or Sonalksis) for Comp/EQ/Limiter etc.

[susiwong]

It's been 3 years now since I bought my first UAD, though I still demo almost everything new I haven't found a better alternative for the UA plugins.
Compressors, EQs - no comment, the best
Realverb, Dreamverb - great for subtle ambience, rooms and strange spaces
Plate 140 - that '70s reverb, only a bit more convenient - guitars, brass and vocals (not only) love it
The Roland choruses - still the benchmark
The mastering bundle - hearing is believing
The only things missing are a Lexicon style reverb (I use CSR for that), a gate (Sonitus) and a multitap delay (lots of good freeware).
Add the free Kjaerhus, Voxengo and Digitalfishpkones stuff and Simulanalog as ampsim (UAD's Nigel is not really good in simulating a guitar amp) and you have everything needed to do a real pro mix.
And before buying Waves, read a bit about Pace and WUP.
Totally subjective and proud of it,
susiwong

[AVBunyan]

Check out the Waves Musician's Bundle II.

I agree - great plugs for the money. You get a tried an proven EQ (Ren EQ) a very flexible Super Tap Delay (which has a good Exciter anad Chorus presets also), a really great Doubler, and 2 great compressors. Add the Elephant Limiter (@$60) and the Sonitus Verb ($59) and you have a nice set of plugs for less than $275 or so.

God bless

[bduffy]

If your looking for a Great Mastering Plugin to finish off your mix try the Yamaha Final Master VST, Really puts that Pro Sound in your Final Mix!:]

Yamaha Final Master? Why would he blow his whole budget on this?

I'd suggest Sonitus:FX Bundle. $300, everything you need and comparable to Waves-quality.

[robogone]

Gotta say that Ohmforce and Waves are sounding the best to me so far. I wish Waves wasn't so expensive though!

[Compyfox]

Waves is overpriced for what they offer.

I also say Kjaerhus Classic, CLAS or Elogoxa X-Citer, Voxengo and the PSP compressor. They might be cheap or "low budget crap" to some people, but they're sure as good as Waves if not better.

Never judge a book by it's cover.

[bduffy]

Waves is overpriced for what they offer.

I also say Kjaerhus Classic, CLAS or Elogoxa X-Citer, Voxengo and the PSP compressor. They might be cheap or "low budget crap" to some people, but they're sure as good as Waves if not better.

Never judge a book by it's cover.

Sorry, but I think people get thrown off about Waves prices; when you look at the plug-ins' price per unit in the bundles, they're cheaper than the Voxengo and PSP stuff! Take Waves Platinum: 32 plugins, $1200. That's $37.5/plugin. Pretty cheap. In the Musicians Bundle, they're $40/plugin. Where's the problem?

Of course, the problem arises with Waves's brutal add-ons; you have to use PACE protection and buy an iLOk key that can't be replaced. You have to buy customer support. I think it's the stress that adds to a poor Waves experience; the plugins themselves are actually reasonably priced - at least in the Bundles.

[AVBunyan]

Sorry, but I think people get thrown off about Waves prices; when you look at the plug-ins' price per unit in the bundles, they're cheaper than the Voxengo and PSP stuff!

Nice post Bduffy - I agree - I got both Bundle II and Native Power Pack for $495 - came out to less than $37 per plug - can anybody beat that for 14 quality plugs? And...got RAxx and IRL Verb for free,

God bless

[bduffy]

Sorry, but I think people get thrown off about Waves prices; when you look at the plug-ins' price per unit in the bundles, they're cheaper than the Voxengo and PSP stuff!

Nice post Bduffy - I agree - I got both Bundle II and Native Power Pack for $495 - came out to less than $37 per plug - can anybody beat that for 14 quality plugs? And...got RAxx and IRL Verb for free,

God bless

RAxx and IRL Verb for free? Interesting.

[Compyfox]

Sorry, but I think people get thrown off about Waves prices; when you look at the plug-ins' price per unit in the bundles, they're cheaper than the Voxengo and PSP stuff! Take Waves Platinum: 32 plugins, $1200. That's $37.5/plugin. Pretty cheap. In the Musicians Bundle, they're $40/plugin. Where's the problem?

There's one issue. Give me $1200 and maybe I'll get it. However for this, I can get a that new Focusrite and an UAD-1. It's also a budget thing.

The problem is, Waves is overpriced. And trust me I have enough skills to use freeware (omg evil word among "pro's") or low budget software (even more evil) which gives me the same, if not better sound than what I could do with Waves. Kjaerhus is one example - get the classic plugin pack and you're pretty much set. Add Slim Slow Sliders gate and sidechain compressor - no probs at all. Need a deesser, use Spitfish.

All those tools are free, and outplay Waves in terms of sound and CPU usage. Does that make me a worse musician/engineer if I don't use Waves?

Of course, the problem arises with Waves's brutal add-ons; you have to use PACE protection and buy an iLOk key that can't be replaced. You have to buy customer support. I think it's the stress that adds to a poor Waves experience; the plugins themselves are actually reasonably priced - at least in the Bundles.

You know... I personally don't care about Pace if it works fine, what I dislike on Waves however is the forcing to use DirectX plugins - I needed a special tool after uninstalling to get rid of the "ghost entries". And before you start screaming, I tested Waves plugins and personally I found them utter crap. Okay, they may be simple to use for people who didn't read themselves into FX module basics, maybe they're "standard" among certain audio crackheads - but to me they just sound like total crap, nothing that can be done with cheaper stuff with less CPU usage, and for this they're just too expensive.

Money that I barely have anyway and I'd rather spend on other stuff. If you say "voxengo" costs more in terms of bundle/price deals. Maybe, but here I can be sure that I pay fair prices rather than a name. It's like Nike and Hilfiger - the usage is the same, both do their thing - but I can look as good and walk as good with cheaper stuff - and be honest... a Shirt that'S usually like 10bucks max right out of the production sold for like 100 bucks just because there's a special sticker on it? Come on!


Like it or not, that's called having different opinions, needs and preferences.

[bduffy]

Sorry, but I think people get thrown off about Waves prices; when you look at the plug-ins' price per unit in the bundles, they're cheaper than the Voxengo and PSP stuff! Take Waves Platinum: 32 plugins, $1200. That's $37.5/plugin. Pretty cheap. In the Musicians Bundle, they're $40/plugin. Where's the problem?

There's one issue. Give me $1200 and maybe I'll get it. However for this, I can get a that new Focusrite and an UAD-1. It's also a budget thing.

The problem is, Waves is overpriced. And trust me I have enough skills to use freeware (omg evil word among "pro's") or low budget software (even more evil) which gives me the same, if not better sound than what I could do with Waves. Kjaerhus is one example - get the classic plugin pack and you're pretty much set. Add Slim Slow Sliders gate and sidechain compressor - no probs at all. Need a deesser, use Spitfish.

All those tools are free, and outplay Waves in terms of sound and CPU usage. Does that make me a worse musician/engineer if I don't use Waves?

No, it certainly does not make you a worse musician. Nor does it make me a worse musician or a ponce if I use soemthing with an established brand name, don't you agree? If you're saying that Waves are inarguably overpriced because you can do better with free products, then aren't all paid plugins overpriced? You're saying all plugins should be free, then?

Of course, the problem arises with Waves's brutal add-ons; you have to use PACE protection and buy an iLOk key that can't be replaced. You have to buy customer support. I think it's the stress that adds to a poor Waves experience; the plugins themselves are actually reasonably priced - at least in the Bundles.

You know... I personally don't care about Pace if it works fine, what I dislike on Waves however is the forcing to use DirectX plugins - I needed a special tool after uninstalling to get rid of the "ghost entries". And before you start screaming, I tested Waves plugins and personally I found them utter crap. Okay, they may be simple to use for people who didn't read themselves into FX module basics, maybe they're "standard" among certain audio crackheads - but to me they just sound like total crap, nothing that can be done with cheaper stuff with less CPU usage, and for this they're just too expensive.

Waves doesn't force you to use DirectX; all the plugins are loading via a single VST shell, "Waveshell.dll". And as for the souding "Crap", that's fine; I'm not going to argue that, that's a totally personal call. For me, Kjaerhus Classic and SlimSlowSlider just don't cut it soundwise, and that doesn't mean I think you're a crap musician. I simply do not like the way it sounds on my music. Just different experiences for both of us.

Money that I barely have anyway and I'd rather spend on other stuff. If you say "voxengo" costs more in terms of bundle/price deals. Maybe, but here I can be sure that I pay fair prices rather than a name. It's like Nike and Hilfiger - the usage is the same, both do their thing - but I can look as good and walk as good with cheaper stuff - and be honest... a Shirt that'S usually like 10bucks max right out of the production sold for like 100 bucks just because there's a special sticker on it? Come on!

A "name"? You mean like "UAD-1" or "Focusrite"? Unless you're getting your stuff custom hard-wired by some guy in California, you're paying for a name, no?

Yeah, I still don't get your argument. I can walk out of a store with the Musicians Bundle for $150. How is that "paying for a name"? 30 bucks a plugin? I guess what it all boils down to here is that you hate the sound of them, so that charging anything for them is a crime; so there's nothing I can say here, really.

Like it or not, that's called having different opinions, needs and preferences.

When did I say I didn't like it? It's very obvious we have different opinions, that's awesome, of course we do. For all I know we make drastically different styles of music, and Waves works very well with rock/pop stuff, like I make.

This isn't personal, at all. I just wanted to point out that I think people get distracted with the big bundle price tags and forget to think about the per-unit cost, or look at cheaper bundles like Musicians or Native Power Pack. That's all. There are considering by a great many to be excellent bread'n'butter plugins, and I think they deserve a mention when looking for a total solution. But if you don't like them, then of course they seem like a ripoff, at any price!

Cheers.

[Compyfox]

Here we go with the usual "waves is so much more intuitive" drama.

No, it certainly does not make you a worse musician. Nor does it make me a worse musician or a ponce if I use soemthing with an established brand name, don't you agree? If you're saying that Waves are inarguably overpriced because you can do better with free products, then aren't all paid plugins overpriced? You're saying all plugins should be free, then?

No I'm not saying that. I just say that Waves is overpriced for what I get. If I look at Kjaerhus or Voxengo however, I pay fair prices and get awesome tools. I go over to waves, pay for a bundle and only get like a handful of tools that just work and sound the same (if not worse - IMO!) as other, cheaper/free tools, I might need an extra Pace Dongle (another 40bucks) and then what?

The market has so many possibilities nowadays, still you only get judged by using Waves or not. And this is a sad fact, especially in the engineering scene.

Waves doesn't force you to use DirectX; all the plugins are loading via a single VST shell, "Waveshell.dll".

I hate loading a wrapper first, before I can actually load the plugin. If I need to do that on like 15 channels with different insert slots - forget it!

And as for the souding "Crap", that's fine; I'm not going to argue that, that's a totally personal call. For me, Kjaerhus Classic and SlimSlowSlider just don't cut it soundwise, and that doesn't mean I think you're a crap musician. I simply do not like the way it sounds on my music. Just different experiences for both of us.

This is your experience, but that doesn't mean that those tools are necessarily bad or not worth for usage. I use them for years now and never had problems getting the sound I wanted.

A "name"? You mean like "UAD-1" or "Focusrite"? Unless you're getting your stuff custom hard-wired by some guy in California, you're paying for a name, no?

Yeah, but there're "names" that want like 200-500 bucks extra just because they're called (example) Mistah-Mega while others offer the very same stuff but for way less money to spend. That's like reinventing the wheel.

Yeah, I still don't get your argument. I can walk out of a store with the Musicians Bundle for $150. How is that "paying for a name"? 30 bucks a plugin? I guess what it all boils down to here is that you hate the sound of them, so that charging anything for them is a crime; so there's nothing I can say here, really.

Cool, so you get the Musicians Bundle for like $150 (list prce on their page is $200) - which was different just a couple of months ago - but what's in there? Tap Delay, a guitar Amp, a Flanger, an EQ/compressor solution for vocals, and a doubler.

Okay... then I get GVST and Kjaerhus and create my own flanging, delay and the like. With the host's EQ and Kjaerhus compressor I can build my own vocal solution, for distortion I can use CamelPhat Free or one of those many amp plugins (or even SmartElectronics Cyanide2). Okay doubling is a bit harder though, but that's for that overproduced typical hiphop/pop-shit anyway. Well and if I need a nice compressor or warming tool, I can go for example to Voxengo, buy 2 plugins and get a 20% discount, though I could have also used an exciter/enhancer (Elogoxa) in chain with a compressor.

If you know your tools, why feeding the the fat lady to get her even more fat? I have more than I need, and if I really need something special then I don't aim for Waves, but those who have IMO the right to get my support.

This isn't personal, at all. I just wanted to point out that I think people get distracted with the big bundle price tags and forget to think about the per-unit cost, or look at cheaper bundles like Musicians or Native Power Pack. That's all. There are considering by a great many to be excellent bread'n'butter plugins, and I think they deserve a mention when looking for a total solution. But if you don't like them, then of course they seem like a ripoff, at any price!

Isn't it so that you always pay less with bundle packs? Or is Waves an exception on that?

No seriously... mentioning good and fine. But think about the extra costs you might have. Especially if you don't have a Pace dongle, or want more plugins than just the bundled 4. So instead of blowing out 500 bucks to get a "full pack" with typical essential plugins, I'd rather look on places where I get the stuff cheaper - not only because I'm on a budget 99% of the time, but the money can also go in something else that's useful.

Bundlepack and still money left for a new synth, or another bundle from an other firm, maybe even have the money for an upgrade of something that you need to use every day? It's always an financial issue, too.

Unless you don't need to care about money at all. But weight out the thing with costs and functionality before you regret having spent a fortune on something that you could have gotten cheaper. And that does not only count to Waves.

[bduffy]

It's getting a little too difficult to arrange all the quotes, so I'll just try to respond briefly:

Well, compyfox. I don't know. I'm not sure why paying $150 (Musicians Bundle 1&2 retail online for $150) for 5 plugins is a crime, while Kjaerhus charging $198 for a single plugin (deserves every penny, btw) is OK. Isn't that about money? Isn't that unaffordable for many people? Are they another name that charges more because of that name? I just don't get where you draw this line. Again, I suspect it's only because you think the Waves stuff is inherently trash, right? Honestly, I'm just trying to understand.

I never said Waves are more intuitive; I'm not sure where you're going with that.

And to clear this up: you do not load a wrapper for the VST, they appear in a plugin menu like any other plugin seperated in its own folder, and you load them like anything else. I assume you haven't used them in a long time.

Look, I can tell you feel strongly about your plugins of choice. I'd be curious what style of music you do, because for the rock/pop stuff I do, the payware tends to win. Our differences could be due simply to our different needs?