Most Awesome Sounding Chord Progressions Ever Vol 1

[JumpingJackFlash]

Whatever you MEANT< it would actually be the chord on the second degree of the scale, made Major, with a minor 7th on it (maj-min7)...

the flat doesn't invert it...

That was my first thought, too. But I don't think he's using "b" as flat there. I think he's using b as in A.B.C. Confusing to me.

Yes, you're right. Apologies for the confusion. I was indeed using 'b' meaning 1st inversion (6/3), as opposed to 'a' meaning root position (5/3) and 'c' meaning second inversion (6/4).

Also, very rarely do I bother distinguishing between ii and II. The only time I will do so is when it's ambiguous, or when there is a clear need to differentiate. II to me will always mean a chord on the 2nd degree, whether that chord happens to be major, minor, diminished or augmented. If I was referring to the chord made major, I would have said #II. If I meant some flattened version of the chord, I would have said bII. (Although, admittedly there could be ambiguity there whether I meant a flattened 3rd, flattened 5th or both, so I would have specified in words).

I know it's confusing that there are many different systems of notation, but at least I try to be consistent in the way I work.[/i]

[Toxikator]

except it matters since a major II is major, a #II is a sharp II.

In C Major:
ii - D minor (diatonic)
II - D Major
#ii - D# minor
#II - D# Major
bii - Db minor
bII - Db Major

[JumpingJackFlash]

except it matters since a major II is major, a #II is a sharp II.

In C Major:
ii - D minor (diatonic)
II - D Major
#ii - D# minor
#II - D# Major
bii - Db minor
bII - Db Major

Not necessarily. I agree it can get confusing, especially with different people adopting different styles, but personally speaking, I would say generally if the accidental occurs before the chord, it usually refers to some modification of the chord (usually the 3rd), rather than a different chord. - It's like in figured bass; the accidentals generally go before the figure they are modifying, and if there is an unfigured accidental it refers to the 3rd.

But I do admit that this isn't always the case. It really depends on context. For example, if you're talking about the Neapolitan Sixth, it makes sense to call it bII (meaning, like you said, a chord on the flattened supertonic). But in a different context, the same figure might refer to a completely different chord.

With complex chords, our system of chord symbols, by themselves, are probably not always good enough to be completely unambiguous in all situations.

[mistertoast]

Since the bVII is the most commonly used (probably) chord where you see a b in front of the name, I always use that as a guide to interpret other such chords. Since the VII chord is diminished in the major scale, you drop the bass note only and end up with a major chord.

If I see a sharp in front of a chord, I assume the bass note (and the bass note only) goes up a degree.

I suppose once it gets this confusing, an example chord (with a set of actual notes) is the correct way to get the meaning across.

[Hovmod]

How about Pachelbel's good old favourite chord progression:

[JumpingJackFlash]

If I see a sharp in front of a chord, I assume the bass note (and the bass note only) goes up a degree.

The bass note or the root? (since the two may not be the same)

[Toxikator]

Root, probably.

Look, the rules of basic analysis call for the # and b before the chord to indicate it's root position, and for it's roman numeral to indicate it's quality.

Therefore, if you write #II, you mean "a major chord, built on the second scale degree, raised by one half step".

If you want to say "raise the root only", your II would be written as #iio (since a major chord becomes diminished when the root only is raised).

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, Toxikator, small letters (or roman numbers) are not used pretty much anymore (with some classic musicians probably being the biggest exception). They're just hard to decipher in handwritten stuff, so you usually just stick an "m", a "-" or a "min" behind the capital numbers (personally, I'd like to use "m" but often go for "min" to get some extra clarity).

[bitshift]

I don't think much "classic" chord progressions will fit all that well with Absynths pads.
Something I like for sort of esoteric evolving pads is using a pedal bass note and fool around with the chords played on top.
Can't fail with a good old minor-to-major switch.
Example: Bass note A. On top play C-E-G-B (resulting in an Amin9), then play C#-E-G#B (resulting in an Amaj9). Expand to taste and use other inversions.

The complete guide to downtempo in 50 words or less.

[mistertoast]

>>Fwiw, Toxikator, small letters (or roman numbers) are not used pretty much anymore (with some classic musicians probably being the biggest exception).

Used a lot in discussions of theory. But other than that, I guess you're right.

[mistertoast]

Root, probably.

Look, the rules of basic analysis call for the # and b before the chord to indicate it's root position, and for it's roman numeral to indicate it's quality.

Therefore, if you write #II, you mean "a major chord, built on the second scale degree, raised by one half step".

If you want to say "raise the root only", your II would be written as #iio (since a major chord becomes diminished when the root only is raised).

I buy this theory. Fits in with my bVII example just fine.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Root, probably.

Look, the rules of basic analysis call for the # and b before the chord to indicate it's root position, and for it's roman numeral to indicate it's quality.

Therefore, if you write #II, you mean "a major chord, built on the second scale degree, raised by one half step".

If you want to say "raise the root only", your II would be written as #iio (since a major chord becomes diminished when the root only is raised).

Well, like I said, different standards.

That's not what I mean when I say #II, and I've known many other sources where this is the case also. You can't say categorically that either way is the one true correct standard and everything else is wrong.

Lower-case Roman numerals just look wrong to me, and I generally don't see the need to bother.

Answer me this then, if VII is a major chord, and vii is a minor chord, what would you say is the diminished chord you get normally in a major scale? - VII° ? - I don't think I've ever seen it written like that (because there is no need, everyone knows the seventh chord is normally diminished anyway, just as everyone knows the second chord is normally minor (in a major key)).

[nuffink]

The lower or upper case usually refers to the third. A diminshed chord has a minor third so should be in lower case.

[mistertoast]

>>VII° ? - I don't think I've ever seen it written like that (because there is no need, everyone knows the seventh chord is normally diminished anyway, just as everyone knows the second chord is normally minor (in a major key)).

It's vii°, and I see it like that quite often.

[mistertoast]

I think all the books I have on pop and rock (not classical) composing use lower case letters for minor and diminished chords. I'll have to look and see to make sure.