Muse Research needs a Conscience...

[Hybernation]

Maybe you Muse owners/former owners can answer a question

why would you buy the muse as apposed to buying/building a VSTi box (computer)?

for 2k you could have the system and Komplete. and not be limited to what Muse sells supports...

scott
ADK

Is there any way to build a vsti computer that bypasses windows? In my case I needed a live vst running machine... Needless to say that booting into windows and mickey mousing around to get to my soft is not an option in a live situation, especially if you consider the stability of such a system. Still, lately I'm begining to wonder if Muse could have just stripped down windows and saved all the headaches... mind you I'm no software pro... I just know that I need (and paid for) a stable vst machine. A vst machine should play vst's... kinda makes sense to me... not ONLY specific vst's or only NI stuff etc. But anyway I do hope Muse comes through... just throwing my 2 cents in here...

Well, speaking with a little knowledge of the software world (only a little though) I can tell you that VST instruments only come in two flavors: Windows and Mac. So "bypassing Windows" isn't really an option, but I agree that a VST machine that has a stripped down and customized version of Windows is a viable solution. Something as simple as putting a VST host (see links in my previous post) in your "startup" group so that when it boots it's read to go should work. And assuming a host like that response to MIDI program change commands, this could be a pretty hands-off environment live (assuming you did your homework and set everything up beforehand).

Also I should have mentioned native instrument's Kore2 platform in my earlier post and possible competition for Muse and Open Labs. From what I have seen of it, it's pretty awesome. You can do a LOT from their little USB hardware thing, and the software can host ANY OTHER VST that lives on the machine. You can layer instruments and chain effects to your hearts content (and to your CPU's limit).

[buscemi]

Yes, with regard to Kore2 that is an oft-overlooked bonus though the ProTools guys seem to have latched on to it so they can run VSTs to their hearts' content. Just wait until NI decides to make a dedicated unit or even add DSP like UAD, TC PowerCore, those SSL units, etc or even more.

[jeamsler]

To respond to Scott, I own a Receptor and yes there is one and maybe two reasons to go Receptor rather than standard pc or laptop. The first one that is iffy is that it is more robust for road work. Some people say yes some no. For me it has been a yes.

The second reason is that it provides much more stable output when responding to midi as compared to any computer I have used or tested. As a player I find it very much like playing a good hardware synth which I have never felt when playing vsti on a standard computer. Objectively the standard deviation I have measured for outputs from midi inputs is on the order of 20 times less compared to any computer I have worked with. Some people may not have the same impression as a player. I feel confident the measurements I have done are true enough. Whether that translates into a better playing experience for every user is a different question. I only know it has for me.

Jon

[projektio]

Lets get one thing straight. When people pay they're hard earned cash for something they are entitled to vent their frustration when so many of these promises come to nothing.

Mark, I certainly can appreciate a few things you point out. People certainly should have the right and ability to "vent their frustrations" about ANY product they purchase, regardless of the $$$ spent on it.

That being said, I think a lot of people purchased the Receptor under false pretenses, which is a combination of Muse promising to have "nearly everything" available and the end users failure in making grand assumptions about what VSTs would work, and which ones would not. Whether this is deceptive marketing & advertising as some people have pointed out, I can't really say, because there were a lot of VSTs not supported right away that I wanted, but I figured sooner or later they'd become available...

Its all to easy to start a response 'now im an ordinary customer, just like you..but....' and then frankly spend a few paragraphs stating how wonderful Muse are. I've had both good and poor support via Plugorama so I'd be happier taking a more balanced view of them. Im also intrigued by your assertion that all products such as this are bound to suffer such serious delays. Don't mind me asking exactly what experience you have in this field...

As for my "experience" with respect to products like the Receptor having major/minor delays on supported software, the only experience I have is my personal assertion that the Receptor is the only rack-mounted, Linux-running, VST only computer I've seen on the market. From my experience as someone who builds PCs and tinkers with Linux from time to time, I would believe that a product like this would not work like magic, at least, not initially.

Even more insulting is your attempt to make this guy feel small for saying something. Where's YOUR Oscar winning soundtrack, did I miss YOUR number one ?? Your whole 'creativity works regardless' argument borders on nonsensical as well. If that were the case, then we wouldn't need receptors in the first place. They are TOOLS to get a job done.

I think you compeltely misread this part of my post. I was in no way attempting to make anyone "feel small for saying something". I was simply saying that a lot of people act as though their ART is being "prevented, delayed, f*cked over" without the use of their precious Receptor.

If anyone is letting ONE piece of equipment prevent them from writing the soundtrack to the next big action movie, or writing a catchy tune that becomes a #1 on the Billboard, or (like me) writing original songs for the pleasure of taking them out on a small gig circuit this summer with friends, then that person is doing THEMSELVES a diservice to their ART.

That's my own opinion, I was not trying to belittle the original poster in this thread in any way. If, on the off-chance, he IS attempting to write a Grammy award winning album, he should absolutely GO FOR IT, I was afraid that he, like so many people who bitch at Muse, are wasting valuable time that could be spent in other areas. Besides the "why Muse sucks" rants are beyond tiresome, we get it, Muse should support their product better, so in the meantime, how is bitching accomplishing anything?

So next time you decide to cower behind a post that starts 'please don't flame little old me..then rant on about people being 'lame' and 'whiny' (and of course they can't flame you back can they?) maybe YOU should realize that these people are in the same position as you are and they've spent their money just like you spent yours.

Oddly enough, you have a point here. The last thing I should have done is ask for zero flaming against me, when in turn I say that people are "lame" and "whiny". And people really are welcome to critize what I say, that's the reason I like the KVR ability to have a heated discourse, so forgive me for even bringing the word "flame" into this thread in the first place.

In closing, I will go back to what I said originally. I think far too many people were lead blindly down the path (either by Muse, or their own volition, or a combo thereof) to the radical conclusion that all VSTs would be supported on Day 1, and if not Day 1, the order in which they were released.

projektio

[jeamsler]

Have to agree with projektio and others who have said similar things. With Muse it sometimes seems like a Charles Dickens story: it was the best of times and it was the worst of times. In the end all of us, supportive customers or not, would like it to be on time.
Jon

[jcschild]

Hi Guys,
thanks for the responses...

pretty much what i had expected

Scott
ADK

[markmorgan]

Projektio.

Appreciate your comments. I did not want to come across as too aggressive and if I misunderstood your intentions then I hold my hands up.

thanks.

[hoestreicher]

I am no "fanboy" of Muse, so before you flame me, consider my first hand experiences with dealing with their staff.

While I am as irritated as most of you for the SLOW release of the "mainstream" VST plugs to become available on the Receptor, I am VERY impressed with dealing direct with Muse.

Every single time I have had a tech support question, an upgrade or even wanted to see where things were at with them on a specific VST release date, I always had a friendly and courteous phone call or email with their people, and felt a lot better about the state of their projects, and happy with my decision to keep a Receptor in my arsenal.

I am very much looking forward to Direct Install to see if this will finally ease a lot of my own VST woes, and I have no doubt that Muse is working very hard to get this released as soon as possible.

People need to cut the guys and gals at Muse some much needed slack, and stop making lame, whiny, sniveling posts about delays which are frankly bound to happen on a product of this nature.

Yes, each of us spent $1,500+ on a Receptor, and I am sure we all bought it for different, albeit, important reasons, but you can't tell me that some type of delay is preventing you from doing the most important thing you can, which is BEING CREATIVE.

This piece of hardware can't possibly be preventing you from accomplishing what you want in your studio while you wait, and I doubt that any serious musician/composer/producer would be stopped from making a #1 hit single, an Oscar nominated soundtrack or some good original songs to take gigging on the road this summer, without having <insert VST here> installed last week...

projektio

+1

+1

[Skytouch]

The second reason is that it provides much more stable output when responding to midi as compared to any computer I have used or tested. As a player I find it very much like playing a good hardware synth which I have never felt when playing vsti on a standard computer.

+1 on Jon's observation. It's pretty rare to run a softsynth on any computer that feels like good hardware. The Receptor dev team has written some great low-level code in my opinion. Sky

[Barend Onneweer]

Agreed. In the studio I play a lot of vsti's directly within Cubase. Even at a buffer size of 64 (very low latency) it feels like something is off. It's not so much the latency but the slight variation in it that screws with the timing.

I run my receptor at a buffer size of 128 and it feels more direct and responsive. Sure, I could have bought a fancy laptop for the money that I put into the Receptor, but on stage I wouldn't trade it in.

Barend

[Rick@MuseResearch]

I use Cubase for most studio work, my buffer usally is at 2048 and I enable Direct Montoring in the VST Audio Bay. I have two Receptors always available, one is use mostly for MIDI and the other Uniwire. When I do use Uniwire it's mostly for when I'm writting Orchestra parts, this allows me to expand past the 16 MIDI channel limit. Now latency with Uniwire is a double edged sword. With Cubase at 2048, Uniwire is at 4096, yikes. To get around this I write the arrangement with something like a piano via MIDI and then start the aticulation mapping with Uniwire, at 4096 I can run far most Orch Instruments. So in other words all my prep work is in MIDI and the final coats via Uniwire. Also Uniwire timing is sample accurate so it's useful for programs like Stylus RMX and Storm Drums. This leaves Cubase it's mostly just running FX'S for mixing. Anyway works for me:)

[MortimerBenz]

Rick,

Absolutely brilliant!

[analogaddict]

I don't see my Receptor as an all-in-one solution, it's more like the perfect addition to my setup. If I have a gig where I need some basic sounds and a great piano, I activate Ivory. If I have a blues gig, I'll do it with Kontakt 2 playing Scarbee's WEP, and VB3. I usually need a synth or two more, but the Receptor does what none of the other synths do. Direct Install has been a slight disappointment, but for me what it does right now is good enough.

[TWB121234]

+1 to what Analogadict said. I think Direct Install will open up more plugs more quickly.
Tom B

[bekenone]

i love my box!
its my Blue, Reaktor-5, battery-3 front end with efx.
or
its my MAD EFX rack from hell!
or
its my Mastering Tool kit!
but
trying to do ALL three is a joke!

so i dont do that