Noiseless "singlecoils"

[susiwong]

Thanks Ian, those are good PUs, but afaik they are supposed to be like Super Distortions in a smaller package. I want the P-90 sound however.
Gibson's P-100s sound different, too, much too mellow. A jazz player might like them perhaps, they are not bad, but no P-90s.
Gibson makes a new one, the H-90, don't know if that one's better.
Cheers,
susiwong

[Ian B]

Thought as much, but then I don't know that much about P90's tbh, let alone silent ones.

[Sascha Franck]

The Suhr backplate system should work with regular P-90s as well, from what I gather.

- Sascha

[susiwong]

The Suhr backplate system should work with regular P-90s as well, from what I gather.

- Sascha

Yeah, probably.
Those PUs would go into a TV Special however, so I'd have to butcher up the body big time.

Did some more research, looks like Kinman is finally about to release P-90s before Christmas.
Hopefully they'll deliver.
The stacked Duncans don't seem to be a big success, haven't found too much about diMarzio VVs.
Another interesting option might be the TV Jones P-Tron, supposed to be a deArmond style noiseless in P-90 shape, very cool but obviously radically different.

Cheers,
susiwong

[P.T.]

How about the Fender Hot Noiseless?
I tried the Clapton Strat withe the Vintage noiseless and liked them. Then I tried the Player Strat that also uses the Vintage Noiseless and did not like that. It sounded too thin and lacking in body.
I think they work in the Clapton Strat because of the Mid Boost circuit. People have told me that the mid boost never turns off, even with it turned all the way down. So, I think the Vintage Noiseless would only be right for me if I added a Mid Boost circuit.

I have not been able to try the Hot Noiseless.
Has anyone tried those?
Do they have more body and low end than the Vintage Noiseless?

[Sascha Franck]

I have not been able to try the Hot Noiseless.
Has anyone tried those?
Do they have more body and low end than the Vintage Noiseless?

I have them in my G&L, but due to the nature of the guitar (see one of my earlier posts for details), they don't have much body. I believe that they might sound quite a bit better in a more or less authentic strat.

- Sascha

[susiwong]

Hi PT,
maybe I can give you some info about Fender Noiseless.
I own and regularly play both VN and HN, in a Strat with Clapton electronics and two passive 3 PU Teles.
Still, it's only an opinion, ymmv.
-- VN sound a bit warmer and more organic to my ears than HN with their ceramic magnets, the HN are great in the middle position of the Teles for already mentioned reasons.
-- VN can sound great in passive guitars if you experiment with the value of the volume pot, I prefer 250k.
-- The EC electronic works as follows:
--- @ ca. 7 of the vol pot sound and volume are extremely similar to a passive Strat, above 7 you get a subtle clean (neutral) volume boost.
--- @ 0 the mid boost is sonically inactive, although there is no dedicated on/off switch, thank God.
--- the middle pot, master tone, is a TBX, meaning it's full open @ 5, below 5 it acts as a normal tone control, above 5 it thins out the sound, making it brighter. I rarely use that feature but it's there in case ...
--- so with vol 7, tone 5 and mid 0 it sounds extremely similar to a passive Strat with VN.
--- both the TBX and EC electronics are available separately, relatively cheap
--- beware, this concept works best by far when plugged directly into a simple !!! tube amp, Fender Tweed, Marshall Plexi, Peavey Classic, AC 30 and Matchless C 30 all just love a good EC Strat,
MESAs, HKs, Brunettis, modern Marshalls, all modellers, complex channel switchers, high gain amps and most stomp boxes hate it.
-- don't forget, the individual guitar and the rest of the chain are a big part of the sound, too.
Hope that answers some questions,
susiwong

[Uncle E]

The one next to the brigde is one of the original Anderson PUs and it's by far the worst sounding PU I've ever heard, extremely noisy (huh?) and with no character at all.

My Anderson isn't noisy but I absolutely agree with your later comment about the pickups sounding dull and lifeless.

You will as well notice the additional Little 59.

Lil' 59's are great pickups! They make my ash-body strat sound almost identical to my Les Paul Custom, even with the trem floating. I've got a Duckbucker in the middle now that seems to have been wired wrong - Seymour Duncan's tech support thinks it's wired parallel since the sound is really tinny - but if rewiring doesn't help, I plan to load a third Lil' 59 in the middle position for a little variety from the standard H-S-H configuration. This guitar has a switch to add the neck pickup in all positions and the combined bridge-neck position is as good as any Les Paul I've ever played.

I will go for true singlecoils and probably invest in one of those Suhr backplate noise-canceller thingies (which, while being incredibly expensive, seem to do a fabulous job, I tried one of his strats a few months ago - no noise, authentic strat sound).

Suhr's are the best guitars I've ever played - much better than Andersons and Melancons - and that backplate sounds great combined with Suhr's pickups. It might be wise to take into consideration the relationship with the backplate and the pickups, we have some Fender Deluxe Powerhouse Strats that use a dummy coil system and I found that those guitars only sound good with the stock pickups and electronics because of such a relationship. Mind you, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Suhr's system is better than Fender's but it seems like something worth considering.

[Ian B]

Thanks Ian, those are good PUs, but afaik they are supposed to be like Super Distortions in a smaller package. I want the P-90 sound however.
Gibson's P-100s sound different, too, much too mellow. A jazz player might like them perhaps, they are not bad, but no P-90s.
Gibson makes a new one, the H-90, don't know if that one's better.
Cheers,
susiwong

If it's just a noise issue with single coils/P90's, a Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger would perhaps be a more cost effective solution. I've got one and it does exactly what it says on the tin, it completely eliminates any noise in the signal chain. There is a downside, but it's relatively minor and you need to be using headphones to hear it, this pedal introduces a very slight echo, but it's not apparent when listening thro' monitors. I've just ordered yet another budget guitar, a Lag Jet which has 3 single coils and assuming the general build is worth it, I'd be switching them for stacked humbuckers of some kind, but if the stock pups are ok, with the Hum Debugger I almost certainly won't need to.

[Sascha Franck]

Suhr's are the best guitars I've ever played [...]

Then you haven't played one of the guitars of Thomas Stratmann
Of course, hardly anybody ever has, for whatever reasons (apparently because he likes it that way) he never made it big. All I can say is that he's just a fantastic repairman and a kickass guitar builder. His Strats, Teles and LP Junior models (which is what he usually builds for clients) blow anything I've ever had in my hands away easily. Really, they're just absolutely fabulous. Needless to say that things such as fret jobs done by him are as excellent as it gets. Plus, his guitars are comparatively inexpensive - for instance, a strat built completely following your specs in terms of neck width, body shape, trem used, handwired PUs etc.) can be had for around 3000 Euros. Ok, that's more expensive than an average Suhr, but as said, you have control over each and every detail while the guitar is build, something only a handful of people could afford with Suhrs...

I do however agree that Suhrs are a lot better than Andersons. I only played two models in my life (they're hard to find over here), both of them being fantastic guitars.
Actually, while I don't regret having my Anderson, while I also won't ever sell it (especially now that it has new PUs), I think that generally they're overrated quite a bit and I certainly wouldn't buy one again. If I was to buy a luxury but more or less "stock" guitar, I'd probably go for a Suhr indeed.
But as said before, next year I'm gonna have my own custom built guitar which will most likely be the only guitar I'll ever need (I already have the exact specs nailed down, including neck shape and stuff).

and that backplate sounds great combined with Suhr's pickups. It might be wise to take into consideration the relationship with the backplate and the pickups, we have some Fender Deluxe Powerhouse Strats that use a dummy coil system and I found that those guitars only sound good with the stock pickups and electronics because of such a relationship.

Yeah, I know. But those dummy coil systems really aren't too great anyways (even if the backplate system seems to use a similar technical method), so I think that the PUs Fender uses in those strats have been modified to compensate for the sonic shortcomings of the system.

Mind you, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Suhr's system is better than Fender's but it seems like something worth considering.

It's defenitely worth considering. But then, as you can see in the Scott Henderson video on Suhr's site, he switches it on and off, apparently there's really no difference (at least nothing that'd be audible in the vid) but the hum missing all of a sudden. With dummy coil systems you can easily tell the difference (I once tried it in a guitar that had the dummy coil switchable), so you may neeed to use PUs specified for such a system whereas the backplate system seems to work with Suhr's standard PUs.

--- strict OT alert ---

Oh well, now that I'm just dreaming about the guitar I'll get somewhen next year, has anybody ever wondered why Fender headstocks are still so popular after all these years? Personally, I like the looks of a 6/left headstock more than anything else, too, but from a technical point of view, 4/left, 2/right (a la Musicman) is a way better solution in case you're not using a locking nut.
Why? Because the string tension of the high E and B strings will be reduced, which is especially noticeable on bends or tremolo actions. With a 4/2 headstock, bends on the high E string will become easier, tremolo action will be wider and all that (without much further sonic impact). In addition, the G string (the "wobbliest" of them all) will be the longest one, which is a good thing as well.
I once modified a headstock myself, and while it looked like shit (it resulted in a rather small triangle-ish thing), the effect was instantly noticeable. If you ever play a strat with a lefthand neck (so the headstock is upside down), I'm sure you'll notice as well. Or just play a Musicman.
So, that's exactly what my custom guitar will have: a 4/2 headstock.

Ok, enough of that for now.

Cheers
Sascha

[Sascha Franck]

Oh, and another note on PUs:
The Duncan Minibucker I've got in my Anderson is absolutely fantastic.
It's doing exactly what I expected, delivering a full, round sound, yet delivering some sparkle.
You may know what I call the typical Les Paul problem. Dial in a nice tone to suit your neck PU, switch to the bridge position and everything goes "kkkshhhhhhh" (too much high mids, no bottom definition anymore). Dial in a proper tone for the bridge and switch to neck position and you're all the way in muddy land. Even some of the best LPs suffer from that problem.
Now, this is exactly what the Minibucker is adressing. It's still sounding full but not muddy. And it just happily cooperates with the bridge humbucker, using the same sound. The inbetween position is simply great, too.

Unfortunately, Minibuckers can't easily be used as single coil replacements, but I remember seeing some sort of adapter frame for standard sized humbucker cavings, so it might be worth a try for those of you with neck humbucker issues.

- Sascha

[Uncle E]

[quote="Sascha Franck"]as you can see in the Scott Henderson video on Suhr's site, he switches it on and off, apparently there's really no difference (at least nothing that'd be audible in the vid) but the hum missing all of a sudden.[/quote
Yes, you're absolutely right. My Suhr has the switch for the backplate, too, but I forgot it's even there because I never use it. As you said, the guitar sounds exactly the same whether it's in or out, the only difference is the hum.

You're also right about the 4/2 headstock. It's funny that we always attribute the easier playability of a Les Paul to its scale length without ever taking that into consideration.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Because I like being late to the party, I just installed a Dimarzio Area Pickguard into my 1997 Mexican Strat to replace the stock pickups. Here are my thoughts after a few hours of playing:

1. They do in fact sound just like single-coils. This was my biggest worry before purchase.
2. This guitar is now even quieter than my Jazz Bass with Samarian Cobalt Noiseless pickups. It's definitely quieter than my 70's Telecaster Deluxe reissue.
3. Amazing string clarity overall.
4. Much hotter output than I'm used to from my Strat.
5. Pickup distance seems to be key with these (more so than my old pickups anyway). The closer the pickup gets to the strings the more compressed and gooey they sound. Further away reduces the output considerably, but creates very dynamic sounds.
6. The set matches very well, will generally sound good on one pickup usually sounds good on all three.
7. The neck pickup sounds very woody especially in the low-mids to mids.
8. The middle pickup is bright and aggressive sounding but still very balanced. On the stock pickups I almost never used the middle position, this one's going to see a lot of use.
9. The bridge is awesome. It allows for some very crunchy bright tones. Perfect for classic dirty Brittish rock tones.
10. Maybe it's the lack of noise or maybe the stuff about the reduced magnet pull isn't BS, but this guitar is sustaining a lot longer.
11. The least "strat" thing about this: the Neck-Middle and Bridge-Middle pickup positions are slightly more noisey than any single pickup. It's a slight difference, but definitely the exact opposite of what I'm used to.

Overall, I'm very very impressed with these pickups. I'd recommend any Strat enthusiast check them out.

[susiwong]

Hey Funkybot,
thanks for the report !
You seem to like them ...
Cheers,
susiwong

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Hey Funkybot,
thanks for the report !
You seem to like them ...

Yep, I like em a lot. In fact, the only thing I don't like on this guitar now is the neck and the tuners. Those are next up I guess. It's a shame that good Fender necks are so pricey.

Back to the pickups though, another great thing is that you can get the prewired set at Guitar Center right now for pretty much the same price as the individual pickups. Just three quick joints to solder (input positive, negative, then the ground) and done!