KVR Audio

alinenunez · Post by **alinenunez** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:40 pm

i dont know if u tried Chordspace PLaya.
i know music theory but this i actually get better result experimenting with this plug in rather than Writting my ideas .
well hopefully this helps

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:41 pm

leighbeynon wrote:ok im actually struggling with these, i think i figured out 3 so far

Bb m7, b6, Am7

im gonna try and work on the rest, not sure if im right as i tried to work them out through the inversions, but maybe this isnt a great method im using

Bbm7 is the first chord you hear, that is correct. Don't know what you mean by "b6" all by itself. There is no Am7 chord in my MIDI file. Keep trying! Look for the triad first, whether it's major, minor, diminshed, augmented or major b5. Then, look for the quality of the seventh or sixth note, whether it's major or minor.

Since we are familiar with Incognito's music, I'd say this chord progression isn't too different from the one in the intro/chorus to "Still A Friend Of Mine." As far as me learning and analyzing songs that I like, I have a natural aversion to doing so. They are rooted deep in my subconscious mind and I prefer leaving them there. To analyze them kind of takes away a little something special about them.

If you guys want to get really good at analyzing, force yourself to recreate MIDI sequences of some pop songs. I used to do that all the time in the late 1980's to early 1990's, before the internet became popular. I used to play in a cover band and was too poor to pay the $20-30 per professional MIDI sequence, so I did it myself, just like the record. Very tough and time consuming but well worth it as far as improving my musical ability. In particular, I think sequencing Sade songs got me my first taste of liking and understanding jazz a little bit.

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:51 am

another book that condenses a lot of chord progrtession informaton in readily absorbable fashion is 'The Harmonic Language of Jazz Standards' by Marc Sabatella

here's a rather in depth summary that offers a great deal
http://www.outsideshore.com/school/musi ... ummary.htm

the more advanced topic that the Mark Levine book evolves from there is to view a lead/melody not as component elements out of a chord, but the mode/scale that's appropriate to a given chord in context. That whole Miles Davis and company contribution from the 50's/60's

but for chord work the Sabatella book is a good through base

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:22 pm

ok im going to keep looking at this and try to get them all right,

think i may need to check my scales and key signatures to find the triads
i just need to figure out which are inversions and deconstruct them

ill keep at it !! thanks and merry christmas !

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:30 pm

ok think ive found a few more not sure im correct, Gm 7, Fm 7, G# m7 ?

ive been trying to figure them ot for quite a while now, thanks leigh

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:45 am

Yes, there is a G#m7. Not that it really matters a whole lot, but I would call it Abm7 since we are in the key of Bb minor and there are no sharps in a flat key.

Take a closer look at what you are identifying as Gm7 and Fm7. They are really Gm7b5 and Fm7b5. For Gm7b5, the bass note could be either Eb, giving us Eb9, or A, giving us A7b9#5. The latter example is what's known as a flat-5 substitution. Similarily, for Fm7b5, the bass note could be either Db, giving us Db9, or G, giving us G7b9#5.

The only chord you haven't identified yet is the second one that occurs in the song. I would call it Amaj7b5, but the bass player would be playing an F so it's really F7#9#5.

the chord progression goes around the circle of fifths so it doesn't really stay in one key. You could think of it as going ii V in the key of Ab then ii V in the key of Gb.

You've got your work cut out for you, Leigh. Certain aspects of this music are a bit beyond you right now. I had a very strong feeling these altered dominants were going to give you a hard time and I was right.

I remember how bad this stuff frustrated me when I was trying to get it together. What really helped me to begin to understand this stuff was an article I found in the May 1983 issue of Keyboard magazine entitled "Basic Jazz Chords Using Altered Chord Voicings" by Jim Aikin. I will try to scan the article, upload it and post the link in this thread soon.

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:08 pm

thanks psenoir, yeah this wasnt that easy for me really, and at the same time if you wrote these chords down with no midi data i would stuggle to play them on my keyboard, think ive got alot of years worth of study and lessons ahead of me, would you recommend any excercises to help me learn ?

memorise the key signatures of each key ? practise scales all the time ?

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:10 pm

http://www.cognitone.com/products/nav/intro/page.stml

^

I don't use that, but it looks interesting. Its, "on my list to buy, if I ever get around to it." But... whatever, to link several books on theory, seemed like a lot of typing.....

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:58 pm

leighbeynon wrote:thanks psenoir, yeah this wasnt that easy for me really, and at the same time if you wrote these chords down with no midi data i would stuggle to play them on my keyboard, think ive got alot of years worth of study and lessons ahead of me, would you recommend any excercises to help me learn ?

memorise the key signatures of each key ? practise scales all the time ?

I don't know if it will take years to get where you want to be. We just have to identify and fill in the gaps in your musical knowledge. We have identified one, so far. The article I am going to scan and upload should be a good step in the right direction toward filling that gap.

I wouldn't say that you should just memorize the key signatures of each key; I think it's important to understand the concept of the circle of fifths and the logic behind it's construction.

I think you should practice scales a little bit if you are playing a song in a particular key and you are going to have the opportunity to solo or perform a melody that is featured in the song. There are lots of different scales and lots of different ways to practice them. Some scales are best used for playing melodies, some scales are best used for playing chords. In music, rhythm is most important. After that, for the type of music you want to do and the instrument you play, you should be pretty damn good at harmony.

To identify all the gaps in your musical knowledge, give yourself the following quiz:
Do I know the names of all the notes (i.e. chromatic scale) forwards and backwards?
Do I know the names of all 12 intervals? Do I know what their inversions are? Can I hear and identify them accurately?
Do I know the 2 whole-tone scales? Do I know how to construct them starting from any note?
Do I know the 3 diminished 7th chords? Do I know how to construct them starting from any note? Do I understand how they are related to the 2 whole tone scales?
Do I know the 4 augmented triads? Do I know how to construct them starting from any note?
Do I know how to construct the following triads starting from any note: major, minor, diminished, augmented, and major b5?
Do I know how to construct the following 4 note chords starting from any note: major 6th, minor 6th, diminished 7th, dominant 7th, and dominant 7th b5? Can I hear and identify them accurately? Do I know what the inversion of a major 6th chord gives? Do I know what the inversion of a minor 6th chord gives? Do I know what the inversion of a dominant 7th b5 chord gives?
Do I know how to construct maj6-dim, m6-dim, 7th-dim, and 7b5-dim scales starting from any note?
Anybody who knows the answers to the majority of the questions above has a rock-solid foundation in functional music theory from a Barry Harris perspective. Once you have this stuff memorized, I can show you how to apply these tools to create beautiful music in any style or genre. Things such as chord substitutions, how to harmonize melodies and other techniques to spice up your sound.

leighbeynon · Post by **leighbeynon** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:19 pm

well i wish i could say i know most of that but i dont, one of the books my paino teacher has me reading is currently teaching me how to count the semi tones to find maj, min, aug,dim chords in their root position and its got me writting out each chord in each key following the roman numerals

so i think im just getting into the right area, i was thinking about downloading some sight reading apps and other paino apps to my ipod touch to help me learn when im not in front of my keyboard.

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:52 pm

It sounds like your piano teacher has you going in the right direction. You can improve your reading and hearing skills at musictheory.net using their trainers. Getting your ears to the point where they can identify intervals and chords is probably the most difficult task. Just keep working and making progress at your own pace. It's like the old cliche, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:47 pm

Here's the link to the article I promised you: http://www.turboupload.com/xc6uguofln09 ... s.pdf.html

wbmccarty · Post by **wbmccarty** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:59 pm

Heads up: According to Google Chrome, the cited web page on TurboUpload includes elements from another web site (statcntr.com) known to host malware and is therefore potentially unsafe. Google claims the site is known to have infected other sites. See:

http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/ ... e&hl=en-US

psenior · Post by **psenior** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:17 am

Do you have any suggestions as to what free download service I can use to host this document without spreading malware?

wbmccarty · Post by **wbmccarty** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:36 am

Sorry: essentially any web site that allows user uploads is likely to have such problems from time to time.

I don't mean to make any black-white claims or cautions. My take is that, if someone wants the file, he/she should be sure to have up-to-date virus and spyware protection (which are no guarantee of safety) and just go for it, hoping for the best. Ad blocking software can also help, since ads are sometimes used to distribute malware. Even transferring files directly from person to person entails risk, since the original file may be infected. The bottom line, as you probably realize, is that there's really no such thing as a safe means of file transfer.

I'm probably more vigilant than most folks, but I found infected PDF files on my system a week or two ago. And, I had a fraudulent transaction on my debit card the day before yesterday. The one may be a consequence of the other--no way to tell, really. Dealing with malware has become a cost of doing business on the Internet.

a better understanding of progressions