If you say you're getting crackles, you're sure it isn't the demo version, aren't you? - Just making sure, as this seems to develop into one of our main support issues
Cheers,
UrsDiva and Studio One 2 not in harmony!
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- u-he
- 30206 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Itrion,
If you say you're getting crackles, you're sure it isn't the demo version, aren't you? - Just making sure, as this seems to develop into one of our main support issues
Cheers,
Urs
If you say you're getting crackles, you're sure it isn't the demo version, aren't you? - Just making sure, as this seems to develop into one of our main support issues
Cheers,
Urs-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 47 posts since 29 Dec, 2009
Hi Urs,
I don't believe it is to do with being a demo (or beta as it happened from V1), as I have a full license, and this doesn't happen in Cubase 6.5, Reaper 4.x or FL that I am also running on the PC. Also if I recall, the crackles that come from the demo, are more like the very old gramaphone record static noise, whereas this is more of a single pop that co-incides with the CPU meter in Studio One going red and hitting 100%.
Disabling the "Use Smaller ASIO Buffer Size" in my Cakewalk UA-25 EX did seem to stop the clicks, and the CPU meter didn't hit red, but there were still 30-40% CPU spikes being shown, just not reaching the red zone, so I guess changing the setting allowed more breathing room for the spikes before causing a CPU overload and hence a Crack?
The other slightly weird thing (to me anyway), is the way that even when Diva is loaded all on her own, the CPU useage meter sits at about 4% (which is normal and fine), but then suddenly with nothing touching the PC in anyway - no midi input, keyboard input etc, just sitting watching the PC, a 30-40% CPU spike will occur. I am sure that it is the addition of these spikes that, when you are playing the instrument and it is running consistently level at about say 40% CPU usage, cause the CPU meter to jump to 100% and a crack/Pop occur. Again these CPU spikes do not seem to occur in the other DAWs.
I also have Ace on this PC and this doesn't show the same CPU spikes/issues. The problem seems limited to a Diva/StudioOne 2 combination.
I hope that all makes sense!!!
Best wishes,
Mark.
I don't believe it is to do with being a demo (or beta as it happened from V1), as I have a full license, and this doesn't happen in Cubase 6.5, Reaper 4.x or FL that I am also running on the PC. Also if I recall, the crackles that come from the demo, are more like the very old gramaphone record static noise, whereas this is more of a single pop that co-incides with the CPU meter in Studio One going red and hitting 100%.
Disabling the "Use Smaller ASIO Buffer Size" in my Cakewalk UA-25 EX did seem to stop the clicks, and the CPU meter didn't hit red, but there were still 30-40% CPU spikes being shown, just not reaching the red zone, so I guess changing the setting allowed more breathing room for the spikes before causing a CPU overload and hence a Crack?
The other slightly weird thing (to me anyway), is the way that even when Diva is loaded all on her own, the CPU useage meter sits at about 4% (which is normal and fine), but then suddenly with nothing touching the PC in anyway - no midi input, keyboard input etc, just sitting watching the PC, a 30-40% CPU spike will occur. I am sure that it is the addition of these spikes that, when you are playing the instrument and it is running consistently level at about say 40% CPU usage, cause the CPU meter to jump to 100% and a crack/Pop occur. Again these CPU spikes do not seem to occur in the other DAWs.
I also have Ace on this PC and this doesn't show the same CPU spikes/issues. The problem seems limited to a Diva/StudioOne 2 combination.
I hope that all makes sense!!!
Best wishes,
Mark.
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- u-he
- 30206 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Mark... this makes me think... does it still happen when you turn the FX off?
(maybe there's a denormal problem in the FX-section... shouldn't be, but still!)
(maybe there's a denormal problem in the FX-section... shouldn't be, but still!)
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- KVRian
- 527 posts since 12 Dec, 2007 from Belgium
Maybe they did their job a little too well with the circuit modeling and all. And the crackles you hear or just the circuits that are starting to run too hot 
maybe you should try turning it off for 30 minutes to let it cool down 
All pish posh aside though, are the crackles like buffer crackles? Like when you set it too low, and it starts stuttering?
I used to have an issue like this in Renoise. Setting my power saving options to "best performance" in the Windows control panel solved all these issues.
maybe you should try turning it off for 30 minutes to let it cool down All pish posh aside though, are the crackles like buffer crackles? Like when you set it too low, and it starts stuttering?
I used to have an issue like this in Renoise. Setting my power saving options to "best performance" in the Windows control panel solved all these issues.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 47 posts since 29 Dec, 2009
Hi Urs,
Turning the FX off, didn't cure it altogether, but might have reduced the frequency of the pops a bit. However, it obviously reduced the overall CPU base useage, and as the pops only seem to happen on a CPU spike, this might be the reason. I did notice that turning the FX off improved the base CPU useage fluctuations. The CPU meter would show a base CPU useage of say 4-6% with FX on and a steady 2% with them off. This would not effect the odd 40ish% spikes whilst idle, which could be seen with or without the FX on.
I have found that turning off the "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" does solve the Pop's although the spikes do still occur but only hit 80% CPU peak. So can be seen visibly, but not heard anymore. At least it helps!!
I also tried Diva in Renoise, Notion3 and Sonar 8.5 last night. Renoise and Notion seemed fine, (might have heard the odd faint click in Renoise, but I wouldn't have noticed anything if I hadn't really been listening for something and I wasn't 100% sure), but definitely Sonar also produced pops, but the CPU meter didn't seem to pick up the spikes. (One of the reasons I moved away from Sonar was because I found it very picky working with certain plugins, so not really surprised or concerned with this finding.)
Back to StudioOne 2, I noticed that with Diva loaded with the default patch the CPU spikes could also be seen whilst everything sitting idle - very boring just sitting and watching the CPU meter - I must get a life!!
So in summary removing the "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" has meant that I can happily play Diva in SO2, without loud Pops!! However, from a technical point of view, there may be a slight issue with the CPU spikes that were causing it, as they still remain, but just not hitting 100% CPU utilisation. They now reach 80-90ish% but obviously the base CPU usage level is also lower.
Maybe on my system these spike are also occurring in the other DAWs but because the Diva/other DAW base CPU usage is much lower, and possibly the CPU meters are not so responsive to picking up spikes, you cannot tell that the spikes are occurring? (or maybe Diva needs these occasional lumps of CPU draw?)
Just for completeness, I should add my PC specs - Asus P5WDG2 WS Pro mobo, Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme QX6700, 4GB RAM, Main disk Samsung F1, and 4 additional drives in RAID 5 array runing from mobo for non music related data, Win XP Pro SP3. No networking enabled, speedstep disabled, no A/V, networking disabled, automatic updates etc disabled, UPS software disabled. Cakewalk UA-25 EX USB soundcard, Edirol PCR-800 keyboard. So I have tried to disable anything that could reduce performance on this PC.
Sorry for the long post but hope the information is useful.
Best wishes,
Mark.
Turning the FX off, didn't cure it altogether, but might have reduced the frequency of the pops a bit. However, it obviously reduced the overall CPU base useage, and as the pops only seem to happen on a CPU spike, this might be the reason. I did notice that turning the FX off improved the base CPU useage fluctuations. The CPU meter would show a base CPU useage of say 4-6% with FX on and a steady 2% with them off. This would not effect the odd 40ish% spikes whilst idle, which could be seen with or without the FX on.
I have found that turning off the "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" does solve the Pop's although the spikes do still occur but only hit 80% CPU peak. So can be seen visibly, but not heard anymore. At least it helps!!
I also tried Diva in Renoise, Notion3 and Sonar 8.5 last night. Renoise and Notion seemed fine, (might have heard the odd faint click in Renoise, but I wouldn't have noticed anything if I hadn't really been listening for something and I wasn't 100% sure), but definitely Sonar also produced pops, but the CPU meter didn't seem to pick up the spikes. (One of the reasons I moved away from Sonar was because I found it very picky working with certain plugins, so not really surprised or concerned with this finding.)
Back to StudioOne 2, I noticed that with Diva loaded with the default patch the CPU spikes could also be seen whilst everything sitting idle - very boring just sitting and watching the CPU meter - I must get a life!!
So in summary removing the "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" has meant that I can happily play Diva in SO2, without loud Pops!!
However, from a technical point of view, there may be a slight issue with the CPU spikes that were causing it, as they still remain, but just not hitting 100% CPU utilisation. They now reach 80-90ish% but obviously the base CPU usage level is also lower. Maybe on my system these spike are also occurring in the other DAWs but because the Diva/other DAW base CPU usage is much lower, and possibly the CPU meters are not so responsive to picking up spikes, you cannot tell that the spikes are occurring? (or maybe Diva needs these occasional lumps of CPU draw?)
Just for completeness, I should add my PC specs - Asus P5WDG2 WS Pro mobo, Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme QX6700, 4GB RAM, Main disk Samsung F1, and 4 additional drives in RAID 5 array runing from mobo for non music related data, Win XP Pro SP3. No networking enabled, speedstep disabled, no A/V, networking disabled, automatic updates etc disabled, UPS software disabled. Cakewalk UA-25 EX USB soundcard, Edirol PCR-800 keyboard. So I have tried to disable anything that could reduce performance on this PC.
Sorry for the long post but hope the information is useful.
Best wishes,
Mark.
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- KVRian
- 660 posts since 12 Sep, 2007 from Sweden
Hi. I'm demoing Studio One V2 and found exactly the same thing. Patches that play back fine in Reaper crackle and pop in SO2. There seems to be a compatibility issue between SO2's multithreaded audio engine and the multithreading in Diva. Unfortunately, my audio interface does not have a "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" option.
-If I turn off "Enable Multi-Processing" in the SO2 settings and enable Multi-Threading in Diva, it works fine. CPU usage as measured with Windows Task Manager, with all 16 voices playing is about 55% (down from about 70% with Multi-Processing enabled in SO2). But then SO2 is only using a single core of my quad-core CPU, which might cause problems down the road.
-If I turn off Multi-Threading in Diva and turn it on in SO2, Diva behaves as it does in other DAWs without multi-threading enabled - ie. it's stable, but I get much fewer voices than I do with proper multi-threading mode enabled, before it breaks apart.
If I decide to buy this DAW, it will definitely be something I mention to U-He and PreSonus. I think the main problem is with the SO2 audio engine though. As soon as it detects high usage on a core, it "jumps" to the next core, which is also busy because of Diva, so it jumps to the next etc. Every time it jumps to a new core, you get a crackle. That's my theory anyway.
Maybe this has something to do with it, also:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/a ... n_0108.htm
Edit: Definitely seems to be an issue with SO2. Guess it's up to them to fix it:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/5067.page
-If I turn off "Enable Multi-Processing" in the SO2 settings and enable Multi-Threading in Diva, it works fine. CPU usage as measured with Windows Task Manager, with all 16 voices playing is about 55% (down from about 70% with Multi-Processing enabled in SO2). But then SO2 is only using a single core of my quad-core CPU, which might cause problems down the road.
-If I turn off Multi-Threading in Diva and turn it on in SO2, Diva behaves as it does in other DAWs without multi-threading enabled - ie. it's stable, but I get much fewer voices than I do with proper multi-threading mode enabled, before it breaks apart.
If I decide to buy this DAW, it will definitely be something I mention to U-He and PreSonus. I think the main problem is with the SO2 audio engine though. As soon as it detects high usage on a core, it "jumps" to the next core, which is also busy because of Diva, so it jumps to the next etc. Every time it jumps to a new core, you get a crackle. That's my theory anyway.
Maybe this has something to do with it, also:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/a ... n_0108.htm
It's very annoying - I just want something that works. Reaper doesn't play very nicely with my Virus TI (massive latency) - SO2 is perfect with the TI but instead Diva doesn't work properly...the default Reaper settings work well with up to eight-core machines, typically offering over 95 percent utilisation of all eight cores. Reaper mostly uses 'Anticipatory FX processing' that runs at irregular intervals, often out of order, and slightly ahead of time. Apparently, there are very few times when the cores need to synchronise with each other, and using this scheme he can let them all crank away using nearly all of the available CPU power
Edit: Definitely seems to be an issue with SO2. Guess it's up to them to fix it:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/5067.page
Hardware: Akai MPK61, MFB-Synth II, Roland JX-8P, Virus TI Snow, KORG MS2000R, Roland SH-01
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
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- KVRian
- 660 posts since 12 Sep, 2007 from Sweden
I've found something that seems to work very well for Diva in Studio One and might help in other DAWs too.
I downloaded the demo version of JBridge (works for 20 minutes at a time) in order to test out Studio One x64 (which has no native support for 32-bit plug-ins like Reaper does). Out of curiosity I tried bridging Diva (even though there's a 64-bit version available).
Once the bridged plug-in is loaded in SO2, click the little Settings button under the Diva GUI and check "Performance mode". I can now play big chords again with my Phenom II X4 in Multi-Threaded mode and at Divine quality.
This is the description of "Performance mode":
-Processes the audio asynhronously, with one buffer of extra latency.
I think it basically detaches the Diva process from the Studio One host. Latency wasn't an issue for me. You can also actually "bridge" the 64-bit version inside the 64-bit host if you want.
I may have to seriously consider switching to SO2 now. Reaper is incredibly lean and efficient, but it seems every new version adds some more sub-sub-menus with options that I don't really use or need.
I downloaded the demo version of JBridge (works for 20 minutes at a time) in order to test out Studio One x64 (which has no native support for 32-bit plug-ins like Reaper does). Out of curiosity I tried bridging Diva (even though there's a 64-bit version available).
Once the bridged plug-in is loaded in SO2, click the little Settings button under the Diva GUI and check "Performance mode". I can now play big chords again with my Phenom II X4 in Multi-Threaded mode and at Divine quality.
This is the description of "Performance mode":
-Processes the audio asynhronously, with one buffer of extra latency.
I think it basically detaches the Diva process from the Studio One host. Latency wasn't an issue for me. You can also actually "bridge" the 64-bit version inside the 64-bit host if you want.
I may have to seriously consider switching to SO2 now. Reaper is incredibly lean and efficient, but it seems every new version adds some more sub-sub-menus with options that I don't really use or need.
Hardware: Akai MPK61, MFB-Synth II, Roland JX-8P, Virus TI Snow, KORG MS2000R, Roland SH-01
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro