zebra hz diva filters

[Urs]

I have noticed Diva (demo) sound bigness too. Even if filter is fully opened. I tryed to use similar waveform in Zebra, but sound is much lesser if compared to Diva. May be someone from U-he can reveal some secrets and tell how it is possible to achieve the same bigness in Zebra? What are additional elements in Diva signal chain? may be some hidden hpf plus shapers?

Try VCOs - HP (Cutoff 30, Res 10, Drive 20) - XMF Biased

[pdxindy]

ZebraHZ filters are identical to Diva filters. Same code. No difference.

The oscillator levels in Zebra may be much higher though than Diva at same setting. You're getting a simple +6dB monosum after all, and I think they are 0dB RMS while Diva is 0dB peak. Thus try Osc volume below 35.00 and compensate by mixer gain.

I don't see the Filter FM in ZebraHZ that the Diva filters have?

[trance_lucent]

I have noticed Diva (demo) sound bigness too. Even if filter is fully opened. I tryed to use similar waveform in Zebra, but sound is much lesser if compared to Diva. May be someone from U-he can reveal some secrets and tell how it is possible to achieve the same bigness in Zebra? What are additional elements in Diva signal chain? may be some hidden hpf plus shapers?

Try VCOs - HP (Cutoff 30, Res 10, Drive 20) - XMF Biased

Thank you very much, I'll try after my vacations. Keyfollow = 100?
But what are the physical sense of it? (just interesting) Biased filter should represent dc offset? And why sound is getting bigger?
And is there any sense to make this trick more automatic in Zebra3? May be builtin hpf and dc offset in osc (optionally switching on/off)? Sorry if too curious/tiresome.

[Urs]

But what are the physical sense of it? (just interesting) Biased filter should represent dc offset? And why sound is getting bigger?

Well, analogue circuits are full of capacitors that block DC offsets. Filters however use DC offsets to "position the signal on the transfer curves" of diodes and transistors. This plays a role in the generation of even harmonics through distortion.

Zebra's filters etc. are designed to withstand a broad range of input signals. Diva otoh is highly specialised. This specialisation can be somewhat recreated in Zebra, but it's not always quick and intuitive.

For Zebra 3 we'll be thinking about ways to make some commonly sought after sounds easily accessible.

EDIT: withhold is not withstand

[Urs]

Oh, and Keyfollow at 0 - you wnat that 60Hz bass boost.

[hollo]

Can we ask Howard to show us a few Diva template in HZ?

- Sorry Howard !

[trance_lucent]

Thank you Urs, now I beleive that I understood some details about analogue magic. Actually I even wrote some vst/au and csound projects as hobby, but it's merely digital effects and one synth with clean sound, and warm big sound always been a mistery for me. I experimented with some ideas how to achieve warm big magic, and most wasn't good, so I TRULY (not only like user) appreciate U-he's achievemnts in analogue domain. Thank you for your magic.

[trance_lucent]

Oh, and Keyfollow at 0 - you wnat that 60Hz bass boost.

Urs, read and answer the message only if you have a free time.
I was thinking about your hints and also had a look on moog vcf schemas. I tryed to understand the nature of analog bass boosting. If I understood correctly it isn't just EQing like Virus does?
I remembered that several years ago I experimented with shaper/distortion plugin. There was a feature of asymmetric shaping generating even harmonics, but it also added DC offset to the sound. I used a kind of highpass filter to remove DC offset, and if I remember correctly it resulted with interesting dynamic bass boost: in the beginning of sound there is DC offset, but then DC remover is starting to work and additional bass booming is ceasing smoothly.
Is effect like this the reason of analog bass boost? If so, then some possibility to control of DC offset would be handy in Zebra.

[GruvSyco]

Thanks for this Urs, Howard - good to know!

The update is working well about saving presets in 2.54/HZ!

I just found recently 3 new LP filter inside the normal VCF
module. TN6SVF, MS2035, MS20SK.

First i thought they'r normal 2.53 filters,
(i'm almost put them in to the Padsheaven bank),
but now if i understand well, they belong to ZebraHZ.

They come with a lot of power (loudness) and with stereo.

Did i miss something, i did not find anything about them in the ZebraHZ manual?

Can you tell something about them?

They're also in Zebra 2.5.3 I've noticed (the one that comes with ZebraHZ)

They're our little "extra" - one is the TyrellN6 filter, mostly, the other two are early attempts on MS-20 filters. Not accurate, but maybe useful

I like the MS20 filter precursor you added very much.

[Urs]

Oh, and Keyfollow at 0 - you wnat that 60Hz bass boost.

Urs, read and answer the message only if you have a free time.
I was thinking about your hints and also had a look on moog vcf schemas. I tryed to understand the nature of analog bass boosting. If I understood correctly it isn't just EQing like Virus does?
I remembered that several years ago I experimented with shaper/distortion plugin. There was a feature of asymmetric shaping generating even harmonics, but it also added DC offset to the sound. I used a kind of highpass filter to remove DC offset, and if I remember correctly it resulted with interesting dynamic bass boost: in the beginning of sound there is DC offset, but then DC remover is starting to work and additional bass booming is ceasing smoothly.
Is effect like this the reason of analog bass boost? If so, then some possibility to control of DC offset would be handy in Zebra.

We can't explain it, but yes, DC removal plus properly laid out non-linear stages result in a dynamic bass boost that can't be recreated by simple EQing. There it is, that's the secret to the Minimoog sound.

[crystalmsc]

I like the MS20 filter precursor you added very much.

sounds a bit different from the MS20 Legacy filter, but I love both and prefer the Bite filter on certain occasions.

[trance_lucent]

We can't explain it, but yes, DC removal plus properly laid out non-linear stages result in a dynamic bass boost that can't be recreated by simple EQing. There it is, that's the secret to the Minimoog sound.

Thank you, it is very interesting, may be I should to experiment with programming filters and shaping again (just for fun).

[pdxindy]

Thanks for this Urs, Howard - good to know!

The update is working well about saving presets in 2.54/HZ!

I just found recently 3 new LP filter inside the normal VCF
module. TN6SVF, MS2035, MS20SK.

First i thought they'r normal 2.53 filters,
(i'm almost put them in to the Padsheaven bank),
but now if i understand well, they belong to ZebraHZ.

They come with a lot of power (loudness) and with stereo.

Did i miss something, i did not find anything about them in the ZebraHZ manual?

Can you tell something about them?

They're also in Zebra 2.5.3 I've noticed (the one that comes with ZebraHZ)

They're our little "extra" - one is the TyrellN6 filter, mostly, the other two are early attempts on MS-20 filters. Not accurate, but maybe useful

I like the MS20 filter precursor you added very much.

The Tyrell filter in Zebra is my current favorite Zebra filter...

[Stollmeister]

I have noticed Diva (demo) sound bigness too. Even if filter is fully opened. I tryed to use similar waveform in Zebra, but sound is much lesser if compared to Diva. May be someone from U-he can reveal some secrets and tell how it is possible to achieve the same bigness in Zebra? What are additional elements in Diva signal chain? may be some hidden hpf plus shapers?

Try VCOs - HP (Cutoff 30, Res 10, Drive 20) - XMF Biased

Ok, this is an old thread. I just couldn't help myself.

This is a really good hint. I just tried it. Just a tiny detail. I wish "XMF" wasn't so ambiguous. "XMF" in this statement refers to the filter module (e.g. "XMF 1" filter, rather than "VCF 1"), and not the mode of a specific filter module (e.g. "XMF", rather than "analogue" or "biased"). When you read Urs's statement closely it is apparent but I was confused at first. Any reason why "XMF" is used for two different things in Zebra?

EDIT: Here is an audio example that shows the amazing difference this makes. This is two sawtows into a Zebra HZ ladder filter 4pole. First there are 4 bars using lower oscillator volume (as per Urs's first advice) and the XMF biased hp1. Then there is a short noise burst and there follows 4 bars of standard Zebra oscillator volume without the biased hp filter. The difference is amazing!

http://parentes.nu/Zebra%20vs%20Zebra.mp3

[Urs]

Any reason why "XMF" is used for two different things in Zebra?

The "XMF" saturation setting refers to the original saturation of the XMF filter introduced in Zebra 2.3. Later on we added more saturation modes, so we kept "XMF" as an indicator of the original one.

This will be corrected in Zebra3, where we start over with this kind of stuff.