Alloy 2 Odd Meter Readings
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- KVRian
- 1439 posts since 25 Nov, 2008 from Seattle, WA
Hey Hibidy: I'll certainly check this out tomorrow evening and see if I can repro the problem. Already in bed tonight
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 213 posts since 10 Jul, 2008
Again, I must clarify. This certainly could be me just being stupid and misunderstanding pan laws, etc. Though, I've never taken a pan law off "equal power" and any time I've ever used a mono track the output has been the same within the plugin as on the channel strip... so I'm not sure why it would suddenly change like this all of a sudden only after upgrading Alloy.
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- KVRian
- 1439 posts since 25 Nov, 2008 from Seattle, WA
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- KVRian
- 1439 posts since 25 Nov, 2008 from Seattle, WA
Ok, backsliders, I've done my experiments and I see what you're seeing, but I think you're interpreting it wrong. Here's what I see.
1. Add new mono track
2. Insert audio into mono track
3. Add Alloy 2 to the first insert slot
4. Disable all modules in Alloy 2, and observe the meter
Result:
Peaks in Alloy 2's meter will appear 3db HIGHER than Cubase meter in mixer.
HOWEVER:
5. Now move the panner of the mono track in the Cubase mixer hard L or R
Result:
Peaks in Cubase and Alloy 2 meters will now match.
What you're seeing is likely part of Cubase's pan law implementation. The actual level of the single audio file is being CORRECTLY reported by Alloy 2. But when you pan the track center, the energy of the single channel is being evenly spread across two stereo channels, resulting in the same perceived volume, but since you're now splitting the audio across 2 different channels, the peaks will be 3dB lower.
So this is exactly what SHOULD be happening as the insert is mono and therefore reading the true energy of the track, and the fact that you pan it anything other than hard L or R happens AFTER the inserts.
Just to double-check, I inserted Steinberg's own StudioEQ plugin into the insert chain of the mono track and it reports the identical peak values as Alloy 2 in both Center and hard L/R pan.
So you don't feel too bad, I made this "same" mistake when I set up my mono Avantone Mixcube. I used Cubase's control room to set this up and at first I was convinced my Mixcube was defective because I was clearly hearing distortion. Turns out my peaks were +3dB higher because I was summing the L and R channels to get mono, and had the inverse effect as you are seeing. Combining the energy of 2 stereo tracks to a mono results in a +3dB increase in the energy of the mono track and I was sending a distorted signal to the mixcube from Cubase.
CASE SOLVED. NO BUG IN ALLOY 2. WORKS AS EXPECTED AND THE SAME AS STOCK STEINBERG PLUGINS.
1. Add new mono track
2. Insert audio into mono track
3. Add Alloy 2 to the first insert slot
4. Disable all modules in Alloy 2, and observe the meter
Result:
Peaks in Alloy 2's meter will appear 3db HIGHER than Cubase meter in mixer.
HOWEVER:
5. Now move the panner of the mono track in the Cubase mixer hard L or R
Result:
Peaks in Cubase and Alloy 2 meters will now match.
What you're seeing is likely part of Cubase's pan law implementation. The actual level of the single audio file is being CORRECTLY reported by Alloy 2. But when you pan the track center, the energy of the single channel is being evenly spread across two stereo channels, resulting in the same perceived volume, but since you're now splitting the audio across 2 different channels, the peaks will be 3dB lower.
So this is exactly what SHOULD be happening as the insert is mono and therefore reading the true energy of the track, and the fact that you pan it anything other than hard L or R happens AFTER the inserts.
Just to double-check, I inserted Steinberg's own StudioEQ plugin into the insert chain of the mono track and it reports the identical peak values as Alloy 2 in both Center and hard L/R pan.
So you don't feel too bad, I made this "same" mistake when I set up my mono Avantone Mixcube. I used Cubase's control room to set this up and at first I was convinced my Mixcube was defective because I was clearly hearing distortion. Turns out my peaks were +3dB higher because I was summing the L and R channels to get mono, and had the inverse effect as you are seeing. Combining the energy of 2 stereo tracks to a mono results in a +3dB increase in the energy of the mono track and I was sending a distorted signal to the mixcube from Cubase.
CASE SOLVED. NO BUG IN ALLOY 2. WORKS AS EXPECTED AND THE SAME AS STOCK STEINBERG PLUGINS.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 213 posts since 10 Jul, 2008
Thank you lightsfadelow. I was worried I was just being stupid and didn't understand pan laws correctly.
I, of course, will continue study of pan laws, but this helps dramatically. It would have been a lot worse had this been a software issue.
I, of course, will continue study of pan laws, but this helps dramatically. It would have been a lot worse had this been a software issue.
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- KVRian
- 1439 posts since 25 Nov, 2008 from Seattle, WA
No worries at all. I think the thing to remember is that even though you have a mono track, once you hit the fader (after all the pre-fader inserts) it becomes a stereo track and therefore the metering reflects this. Like I said, I got bitten by a similar but inverse misunderstanding when doing a mono submix for my MixCube, so it's an easy misunderstanding to make.
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- KVRian
- 1439 posts since 25 Nov, 2008 from Seattle, WA
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- KVRAF
- 2083 posts since 28 Feb, 2011
Glad to have this resolved.
