An all-pass filter is a signal processing filter that passes all frequencies equally, but changes the phase relationship between various frequencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-pass_filter
Anybody get good results with KH Disperser?
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- KVRian
- 588 posts since 23 Mar, 2010 from Canada
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- KVRian
- 1102 posts since 30 Oct, 2005
the sad truth is that allpass filters were completely and udeservedly overlooked by most software EQ devs until now...hope it will change somehow,becouse these are my secret weapons for many things /phase alignment,creating headroom etc.../
the only EQ with allpass filter I know of is good old PLPar, but it cannot be used in realtime because of big latency
and the only another specialized allpass plugin Phasetone /free/ from tritonedigital failed miserably for me...hope this promising plugin will be better...
the only EQ with allpass filter I know of is good old PLPar, but it cannot be used in realtime because of big latency
and the only another specialized allpass plugin Phasetone /free/ from tritonedigital failed miserably for me...hope this promising plugin will be better...
Last edited by kvaca on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 5551 posts since 26 Apr, 2007 from Noosphere
DDMF IIEQPro has it.kvaca wrote: and the only another specialized allpass plugin Phasetone /free/ from tritonedigital failed miserably for me...hope this promising plugin will be better...
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- KVRian
- 1102 posts since 30 Oct, 2005
OK...but still only two VST EQs capable of allpass filtering...among hundrets of others incapable...Igro wrote:DDMF IIEQPro has it.kvaca wrote: and the only another specialized allpass plugin Phasetone /free/ from tritonedigital failed miserably for me...hope this promising plugin will be better...
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- Banned
- 10196 posts since 12 Mar, 2012 from the Bavarian Alps to my feet and the globe around my head
1-2-3...kvaca wrote:...but still only two VST EQs capable of allpass filtering...among hundrets of others incapable...
The DynamicEQ by Meldaproduction has allpass filters, too!
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- Banned
- 10196 posts since 12 Mar, 2012 from the Bavarian Alps to my feet and the globe around my head
1-2-3-4...
The BiFilter 2 by Tone2 has Allpass filters, too...
(This would be an interesting new thread: Which EQ and Filter plugins do have Allpass filters?)
The BiFilter 2 by Tone2 has Allpass filters, too...
(This would be an interesting new thread: Which EQ and Filter plugins do have Allpass filters?)
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
the free ReaEq from cockos and buddes Noname-EQ have allpass filters as well.
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- Banned
- 10196 posts since 12 Mar, 2012 from the Bavarian Alps to my feet and the globe around my head
murnau wrote:the free ReaEq from cockos and buddes Noname-EQ have allpass filters as well.
I've used ReaEQ so often, and I didn't even know that there are Allpass filters. So if Allpass filters change the phase, does it mean the ReaEQ could do a similar job as the Disperser?
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
dont know but i think not, since an allpass-filter changes the phase relationship between various frequencies, while this new plugin "rotate" the phases of a signal. i think it follows a rather unique attempt: i have to try it out too.
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- KVRian
- 1102 posts since 30 Oct, 2005
I dont hear any single rotation but its resonant as hell most of the time, at least when compared to PLPars allpass filter...unfortunately the freq. display is too much minimalistic to my taste-precise work is impossible here...but its still usable as kick "tape" fattener or funny synthetic sounding fx
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- KVRAF
- 5223 posts since 20 Jul, 2010
Here's an example of a beat I'm working on, first with the two Disperser instances disabled, then with them enabled. Note that the sound is a bit chunkier with Disperser and the volume levels are LOWER and more even! (At least, they were before I Soundclouded them, lol)
https://soundcloud.com/sendy/kilo-heart ... er-allpass
Also, note that I'm using a lot of other effects to make the beat, both clips have these effects unchanged.
https://soundcloud.com/sendy/kilo-heart ... er-allpass
Also, note that I'm using a lot of other effects to make the beat, both clips have these effects unchanged.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 27 Jun, 2011 from Sweden
Hi everyone! I'm happy to see that there is so much interest for our new plug. We are very curious to see how it is received, since as far as I know there is no other plug that does what Disperser does (except maybe as a side effect if you tweak the knobs just so). I'll try to clear up some confusion about what it does and give you some tips on what you can try it on.
The Disperser is, as you know, an all-pass filter. This means it has a completely flat frequency response, it does not add any gain whatsoever to the sound you put through it. It does however effect the phases of the signal, just like an EQ in minimum phase mode for example, only more so. This effect is called the phase response of the filter, or phase offset / phase rotation / dispersion / what have you. Many people seem to call it phase rotation when it is used as an effect in itself, so that is what we went with.
Let's start with the Amount knob. This one sets the order of the all-pass filter.
When you have it at a low setting it just adds a tiny bit of phase offset to your signal, usually not enough to be audible. It is still a usable tool with a low amount setting however, since it can reduce the "crest factor" of a signal. The crest factor is the ratio between the peaks of a signal, and the overall power of the signal. As an example, a pulse wave with a very high PWM setting has a high crest factor (it has high peaks, but it still does not sound very loud). Adding a little bit of phase offset to such a signal will drastically lower the peaks, without lowering the volume or changing the sound very much (yay, free headroom!). Human voice can have a surprisingly high crest factor, and many radio stations have a little bit of all-pass filtering on the mics to get more headroom. If you have vocals that sound thin even though you compress them heavily then you may have a problem with the crest factor.
When you start to increase the Amount another property of the all-pass filters start to be audible; the group delay. The group delay is a delay which is different for each frequency band. The graph that is visible in the frequency window in the Disperser is the current group delay. When you have a medium amount setting the group delay can be used as a kind of frequency aware transient shaper. It will transform sharp transients from clicks into short zaps, since the low frequencies will be delayed more than the high ones.
Once you crank the Amount knob all the way up the group delay will be even higher, on the order of several hundred milliseconds. This can be used to create some really loud and booming drums! The bass from the drums will be smeared out, and it will sound louder even tough it isn't. In fact the peak volume of your drums will probably be lower than before, since all frequencies won't appear at the same point in time.
The Frequency slider sets the cutoff for the all-pass filters. The group delay is a lot more pronounced if you keep the cutoff low.
Lastly, the Pinch knob will tweak the Q parameter of the filters. Turn this knob to adjust the shape of the group delay. A high Pinch has the effect of concentrating the group delay in a narrow frequency band, hence the name. Crank it up and hear the Disperser sing for you.
Some things to try:
* Use the Disperser on a staccato bass line with a high frequency content for a more interesting bass sound.
* Use it on a drum loop, either as a transient shaper (medium Amount setting), or as a way to make the drums sound louder and bigger (high Amount setting). Use it before a compressor for more even more loudness.
* Put it with a low amount setting on a problematic track with a high crest factor to reduce the peaks.
* Chain it before a distortion. Keep the Amount quite low and play around with the Frequency and Pinch to change the timbre of the distorted sound. Automate to taste for dubstep.
* Experiment. It probably has lots of other uses that we haven't discovered yet.
The Disperser is, as you know, an all-pass filter. This means it has a completely flat frequency response, it does not add any gain whatsoever to the sound you put through it. It does however effect the phases of the signal, just like an EQ in minimum phase mode for example, only more so. This effect is called the phase response of the filter, or phase offset / phase rotation / dispersion / what have you. Many people seem to call it phase rotation when it is used as an effect in itself, so that is what we went with.
Let's start with the Amount knob. This one sets the order of the all-pass filter.
When you have it at a low setting it just adds a tiny bit of phase offset to your signal, usually not enough to be audible. It is still a usable tool with a low amount setting however, since it can reduce the "crest factor" of a signal. The crest factor is the ratio between the peaks of a signal, and the overall power of the signal. As an example, a pulse wave with a very high PWM setting has a high crest factor (it has high peaks, but it still does not sound very loud). Adding a little bit of phase offset to such a signal will drastically lower the peaks, without lowering the volume or changing the sound very much (yay, free headroom!). Human voice can have a surprisingly high crest factor, and many radio stations have a little bit of all-pass filtering on the mics to get more headroom. If you have vocals that sound thin even though you compress them heavily then you may have a problem with the crest factor.
When you start to increase the Amount another property of the all-pass filters start to be audible; the group delay. The group delay is a delay which is different for each frequency band. The graph that is visible in the frequency window in the Disperser is the current group delay. When you have a medium amount setting the group delay can be used as a kind of frequency aware transient shaper. It will transform sharp transients from clicks into short zaps, since the low frequencies will be delayed more than the high ones.
Once you crank the Amount knob all the way up the group delay will be even higher, on the order of several hundred milliseconds. This can be used to create some really loud and booming drums! The bass from the drums will be smeared out, and it will sound louder even tough it isn't. In fact the peak volume of your drums will probably be lower than before, since all frequencies won't appear at the same point in time.
The Frequency slider sets the cutoff for the all-pass filters. The group delay is a lot more pronounced if you keep the cutoff low.
Lastly, the Pinch knob will tweak the Q parameter of the filters. Turn this knob to adjust the shape of the group delay. A high Pinch has the effect of concentrating the group delay in a narrow frequency band, hence the name. Crank it up and hear the Disperser sing for you.
Some things to try:
* Use the Disperser on a staccato bass line with a high frequency content for a more interesting bass sound.
* Use it on a drum loop, either as a transient shaper (medium Amount setting), or as a way to make the drums sound louder and bigger (high Amount setting). Use it before a compressor for more even more loudness.
* Put it with a low amount setting on a problematic track with a high crest factor to reduce the peaks.
* Chain it before a distortion. Keep the Amount quite low and play around with the Frequency and Pinch to change the timbre of the distorted sound. Automate to taste for dubstep.
* Experiment. It probably has lots of other uses that we haven't discovered yet.
kiloHearts Developer
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- KVRian
- 871 posts since 20 Jun, 2010
Hi finalman,
I tried the stuff you suggested, though I don't get convincing results yet.
I'm mainly interested in bigger drums and more headroom. In the best case both at once, but I'm nowhere near it at the moment.
For example, with some tweaking I can make the bassdrum sound bigger, but I also loose 2-3db of headroom. Wasn't my stuff supposed to get more headroom instead? Well, I tried other instruments too, percussive and also non percussive. No matter what I do I never gain headroom.
Can you give me a hint about how I have to set disperser to fatten a bassdrum without losing headroom?
Cheers,
Doc
I tried the stuff you suggested, though I don't get convincing results yet.
I'm mainly interested in bigger drums and more headroom. In the best case both at once, but I'm nowhere near it at the moment.
For example, with some tweaking I can make the bassdrum sound bigger, but I also loose 2-3db of headroom. Wasn't my stuff supposed to get more headroom instead? Well, I tried other instruments too, percussive and also non percussive. No matter what I do I never gain headroom.
Can you give me a hint about how I have to set disperser to fatten a bassdrum without losing headroom?
Cheers,
Doc
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- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
Im getting GREAT results from this. Genre is minimal tech. You can take some percussive sounds, tweak it, and suddenly you have an awesome bassline out of it
