Zebra GM Sound set?

[aMUSEd]

I suspect Goblin, Brightness, Atmosphere, Soundtrack, Crystal, etc. were all done on D-50 or something. Just a shot in the dark.

Maybe - but they would still have had to synthesise the PCM samples from something.

[EvilDragon]

PCM on D-50 was done by recording real objects, then processed, IIRC!

[aMUSEd]

I would have thought for the synth sounds they would have recorded real synths even if the GM set was based on a PCM synth like the D50 (or Wavestation?)

[djanthonyw]

I often thought about a collection of general purpose instruments for Zebra. This would be a really cool project
The GM drumsets would of course be hard to realize. Not the sounds themselves, but fitting them all into one patch.
There are some really good pianos in Michael Kastrups "Hybrids" soundbank by the way

Cheers
Dennis

From the comments, it looks like the drums were synthesized here. This is actually what got me thinking about this thread.

[Howard]

I would have thought for the synth sounds they would have recorded real synths even if the GM set was based on a PCM synth like the D50 (or Wavestation?)

Won't be Wavestation, as that's not from Roland. My guess is mostly D50 (BTW I hate General MIDI and all it stands for).

[whyterabbyt]

You don't really understand what aMUSEd wants to know.
He does not want to no any patchnames. He wants to know how the samples of the very first GM device (which seems to be a Roland one) were made. Of course they had to be synthesized somehow. I did a quick google search but unfortunately with no result.

Yeah I have tried searching myself. From the sound presumably patches like the Goblin one came from analog gear originally but I'd like to know how these were made and what with (and this also might help in synthesising fresh versions in Zebra).

But they werent necessarily consistent from one GM synth to the next, were they?

[aMUSEd]

You don't really understand what aMUSEd wants to know.
He does not want to no any patchnames. He wants to know how the samples of the very first GM device (which seems to be a Roland one) were made. Of course they had to be synthesized somehow. I did a quick google search but unfortunately with no result.

Yeah I have tried searching myself. From the sound presumably patches like the Goblin one came from analog gear originally but I'd like to know how these were made and what with (and this also might help in synthesising fresh versions in Zebra).

But they werent necessarily consistent from one GM synth to the next, were they?

Probably not - I suppose what I'm asking for is what was the archetype? Even if GM plugins etc used samples the first GM synth sounds (i.e. the leads, pads and fx) must have been generated synthetically at some point.

[fmr]

Probably not - I suppose what I'm asking for is what was the archetype? Even if GM plugins etc used samples the first GM synth sounds (i.e. the leads, pads and fx) must have been generated synthetically at some point.

Since GM was very much a creation of Roland (and a subset of their own GS), I believe that the paradigm was the D50, and the PCM synths that directly descended from it. The MT32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MT-32 AFAIK, can be considered as the first GM synth, preceding the norm itself.
The first truly GM compatible module was the Sound Canvas, which launch coincided with the publication of the GM norm, and also the GS norm.

[hollo]

Maybe Eric Persing could tell about this more

Just guessing they was using all they had in the factory lab,
including flagship synths, acoustic samples and processing
them to death.

I just posted the link because it was about Roland and Yamaha (with
different sets) the preset list was just a plus.

fmr was right about the first: Mt32 - hehe it was really terrible

[bbaggins]

My understanding has been that the first synth to implement General MIDI was not a Roland product, but rather the Prophet 600 from Sequential Circuits. The GM sound set would have been programmed using its own all-analog voice modules.

I think a GM set for Zebra is a great idea. I wouldn't expect the presets to sound like acoustic instruments, but if nothing else it could be a means of finding a certain type of patch. Of course, such an advantage would become irrelevant with Z3's upcoming tag-and-search feature.

[fmr]

My understanding has been that the first synth to implement General MIDI was not a Roland product, but rather the Prophet 600 from Sequential Circuits. The GM sound set would have been programmed using its own all-analog voice modules.

Where did you heard that? I find it hard to believe. More than half of the GM bank is composed of acoustic instruments. The sounds programmed in the Prophet 600 would not be very convincing, IMO. And how would it do drum kits? And multitimbrality? Sorry, but you must be confusing GM with something else (maybe MIDI itself, which was presented by hooking a Jupiter-6 with a Prophet-600 in 1993 Winter NAMM show?).

[aMUSEd]

My understanding has been that the first synth to implement General MIDI was not a Roland product, but rather the Prophet 600 from Sequential Circuits. The GM sound set would have been programmed using its own all-analog voice modules.

Where did you heard that? I find it hard to believe. More than half of the GM bank is composed of acoustic instruments. The sounds programmed in the Prophet 600 would not be very convincing, IMO. And how would it do drum kits? And multitimbrality? Sorry, but you must be confusing GM with something else (maybe MIDI itself, which was presented by hooking a Jupiter-6 with a Prophet-600 in 1993 Winter NAMM show?).

I guess that might be the source of the synth parts though, then they padded it out with sampled sounds to make the whole GM bank.

[fmr]

My understanding has been that the first synth to implement General MIDI was not a Roland product, but rather the Prophet 600 from Sequential Circuits. The GM sound set would have been programmed using its own all-analog voice modules.

Where did you heard that? I find it hard to believe. More than half of the GM bank is composed of acoustic instruments. The sounds programmed in the Prophet 600 would not be very convincing, IMO. And how would it do drum kits? And multitimbrality? Sorry, but you must be confusing GM with something else (maybe MIDI itself, which was presented by hooking a Jupiter-6 with a Prophet-600 in 1993 Winter NAMM show?).

I guess that might be the source of the synth parts though, then they padded it out with sampled sounds to make the whole GM bank.

Sorry, but it's nonsense. Why would Roland use Prophets, when they had Jupiters? No, I'm pretty convinced even the synth sounds came from the D-50. The Fantasia (New Age), for example, is a well known sound from D-50. Halo is typically D-50, too. Soundtrack is another well known sound created by Eric Persing on several Roland synths. If you look well (I am taking the Sound Canvas as an example), every synth sound in there could very well come from the D-50. Of course, later modules like the SC-88 Pro improved the sound quality, taking advantage of better synth engines featured in synths like the JV series and the JD series.

[EvilDragon]

My understanding has been that the first synth to implement General MIDI was not a Roland product, but rather the Prophet 600 from Sequential Circuits. The GM sound set would have been programmed using its own all-analog voice modules.

No, that's not General MIDI, that's just MIDI. Dave Smith worked with Roland and others to create the MIDI standard. General MIDI is something else.

[ThomasHelzle]

I like the idea of a community project.

It would also be a nice way to show how the midi preset folder works.

There are many free sounds that could fit in nicely already and that sound as good or better as most GM sets anyway
"Real" shouldn't be the main point here IMO. If you use "Zebra GM", you aren't after samples anyway - I'd see that as a strength rather than a limitation.

Also, instead of trying to copy an existing set perfectly, I would find it more interesting and motivating to have a quite specific Zebra version of GM or GS with some real character and quality.

I guess most authors would be okay with including their sounds?
And maybe even some commercial sets would donate a sound or two?

As questionable as the whole GM idea is (especially in the synth area - in the acoustic area it makes more sense IMO) such a set could be helpful if you just want to drop in some standard sounds for starters without going through a huge list of presets, fledge out an idea and concentrate on sound design later.

Just my 2 cents though

Cheers,

Tom