A rise of "Page 22" (post by Jan) rubbish in the Cafe?

[ATS]

not everyone can be as awesome at making the "right" kind of music as you.

[Katelyn]

I hate to ask this question, but specifically what genres are ya'll referring to as EDM? I mean, I know what the term stands for... electronic dance music, but with what connotation? The term has been around for many years but the meaning has changed lately and I don't know anymore what people mean by it. The most I can figure is poor quality house, eurotrance and dubstep.

I've not kept up with popular music for god knows how many years now so I have no idea what is popular in mainstream culture at the moment other than to some degree dubstep.

[Sendy]

not everyone can be as awesome at making the "right" kind of music as you.

While referring to it as "EDM (probably) rubbish" is a bit snooty of the OP (and of myself as I'm prone to similar opinions), it's not so much a comment on EDM as a whole, or on which music is "wrong" or "right", as it is the high number of artist profiles in that category with completely the wrong motives for making music and posting it to forums. While there are no right or wrong genres, there ARE right and wrong motives for the musical and social decisions involved.

It just so happens that the rise in these type of folk coincides with the term EDM. In fact, to many they are synonymous. People hate the term "EDM" in the way they hate people who chat loudly on their phones in public places. That's not to say there is no good electronic dance music out there, OR that those of us with this opinion hold the monopoly on the term EDM and it's meaning.

In fact it's debatable whether EDM, like IDM, HAS any meaning. I tend to ascribe it to the latest wave of totally soul-less electronic bro music made by selfish arseholes, but YOU might be using it to refer to tunes I really like merely because they are, in fact, electronically produced and meant to dance to.

[DSmolken]

not everyone can be as awesome at making the "right" kind of music as you.

While referring to it as "EDM (probably) rubbish" is a bit snooty of the OP (and of myself as I'm prone to similar opinions), it's not so much a comment on EDM as a whole, or on which music is "wrong" or "right", as it is the high number of artist profiles in that category with completely the wrong motives for making music and posting it to forums. While there are no right or wrong genres, there ARE right and wrong motives for the musical and social decisions involved.

I make music to improve my social life. Specifically, to make women think I'm less old and boring than I actually am. Is that wrong?

[JonSolo]

not everyone can be as awesome at making the "right" kind of music as you.

While referring to it as "EDM (probably) rubbish" is a bit snooty of the OP (and of myself as I'm prone to similar opinions), it's not so much a comment on EDM as a whole, or on which music is "wrong" or "right", as it is the high number of artist profiles in that category with completely the wrong motives for making music and posting it to forums. While there are no right or wrong genres, there ARE right and wrong motives for the musical and social decisions involved.

This is not directed specifically at you...but at a mentality. Since when is a motive regarding music RIGHT or WRONG? How many of us have taken on a soundtrack job because we needed the money when we would rather be rocking hard with our buddies? How many of us have made a "beat" because we needed money or to draw recognition to our startup studio? How many artists have written or performed music to "blow up" or "expand their audience" and later talked about how much they hated it (Cheryl Crow, Elton John, and Billy Joel come to mind)? Was any of that WRONG?

A friend once told me how much they LOVED my music, but also told me it was hard to listen to and inaccessible for the average listener. In essence they asked me to dumb down my skills for the sake of the listener. So I did. 20 years later I have a lot more people that regularly listen to my music. From time to time I will slip in some of my "old style" material in there, and when I do I get the same reaction "I like it but I like your....song better".

The only self serving ones are those who make music that no one but them can appreciate. Money, fame, or whatever else might be selfish too, but at least offers something that pleases others...even if that was not the original motive.

Oh, I do have an opinion of various forms of music. That part I will keep to myself. Selfish that way. Heh.

Jon

[debra1rlo]

I just checked the Cafe and I didnt see anything posted by edm. Does he/she use a different handle on KVR perhaps?

[robogone]

I just checked the Cafe and I didnt see anything posted by edm. Does he/she use a different handle on KVR perhaps?

He has a few sockpuppet accounts - tarnce, tracne, wobblebass, thedrop, etc.

[elassi]

A friend once told me how much they LOVED my music, but also told me it was hard to listen to and inaccessible for the average listener. In essence they asked me to dumb down my skills for the sake of the listener. So I did. 20 years later I have a lot more people that regularly listen to my music. From time to time I will slip in some of my "old style" material in there, and when I do I get the same reaction "I like it but I like your....song better".

I almost never 'publish' a track because I know about the weak spots (there are many) in my 'productions'. But there are people that like 'em (I arrange 'blind' tests from time to time).

Conclusion? None!

I stay with what I think. And I can, because I'm absolutely relaxed about my music. It's my hobby and I love it. I don't need to become famous.

[Sendy]

not everyone can be as awesome at making the "right" kind of music as you.

While referring to it as "EDM (probably) rubbish" is a bit snooty of the OP (and of myself as I'm prone to similar opinions), it's not so much a comment on EDM as a whole, or on which music is "wrong" or "right", as it is the high number of artist profiles in that category with completely the wrong motives for making music and posting it to forums. While there are no right or wrong genres, there ARE right and wrong motives for the musical and social decisions involved.

This is not directed specifically at you...but at a mentality. Since when is a motive regarding music RIGHT or WRONG? How many of us have taken on a soundtrack job because we needed the money when we would rather be rocking hard with our buddies? How many of us have made a "beat" because we needed money or to draw recognition to our startup studio? How many artists have written or performed music to "blow up" or "expand their audience" and later talked about how much they hated it (Cheryl Crow, Elton John, and Billy Joel come to mind)? Was any of that WRONG?

A friend once told me how much they LOVED my music, but also told me it was hard to listen to and inaccessible for the average listener. In essence they asked me to dumb down my skills for the sake of the listener. So I did. 20 years later I have a lot more people that regularly listen to my music. From time to time I will slip in some of my "old style" material in there, and when I do I get the same reaction "I like it but I like your....song better".

The only self serving ones are those who make music that no one but them can appreciate. Money, fame, or whatever else might be selfish too, but at least offers something that pleases others...even if that was not the original motive.

Oh, I do have an opinion of various forms of music. That part I will keep to myself. Selfish that way. Heh.

Jon

Good argument, and all I can say is that while commercially produced music may be a neccecary evil, it rarely appeals to me, unless there's some form of "the love of music" weaved into it as well.

You may make some generic beats to get your commercial studio up and running, or try something more poppy to reel in a bigger crowd, but if love of money and fame are your only goals, chances are I'm not going to like the music much.

Beyond the need to make money and survive, there has to be something there. A viewpoint, a modus operandi, something to say. I'd never stop anyone making generic music to survive and feed their family, but chances are, if there's no big idea behind it or love weaved into it, I'm not going to dig it.

There are too many people trying to make electronic music simply because they want to be famous, get the girls, or because it's "the cool new thing", and I do honestly resent them and their utter disdain for sound and unwillingness to put in effort, learn music and sound design theory, and their love of instant results and copycat mentality. I'd be lying if I said I didn't. The "scene" these days consists largely of a huge crowd of people shouting very loudly and saying nothing.

[macmurphy]

don't expect to get anything (material) from music and you'll not be disappointed.
plough your own furrow, i say.

[vurt]

eeeeewww yuk other music! the streets just aint safe these days! who can save us?

[jancivil]

not so much a comment on EDM as a whole, or on which music is "wrong" or "right", as it is the high number of artist profiles in that category with completely the wrong motives for making music and posting it to forums. While there are no right or wrong genres, there ARE right and wrong motives for the musical and social decisions involved.

Since when is a motive regarding music RIGHT or WRONG?
How many of us have taken on a soundtrack job because we needed the money

How many artists have written or performed music to "blow up" or "expand their audience" and later talked about how much they hated it (Cheryl Crow, Elton John, and Billy Joel come to mind)? Was any of that WRONG?

Which goalpost are we aiming for, which question would you prefer be addressed? This is two different questions.
I think if those artists hated the results it seems to have been wrong for them.
OTOH I've taken on jobs and not compromised. If the money is important, it tends to be important to be ready to take direction.

A friend once told me how much they LOVED my music, but also told me it was hard to listen to and inaccessible for the average listener. In essence they asked me to dumb down my skills for the sake of the listener. So I did. 20 years later I have a lot more people that regularly listen to my music.

Far be it from me to say what's wrong for you. I think you have identified an issue though. Are you happier to talk down, essentially, to people, in order for their approbation? You actually used the term "dumb down"; is that right for you?

The only self serving ones are those who make music that no one but them can appreciate.

"self-serving" looks like a pejorative framing, and you go further to imply the people that would do, let me frame it 'music qua music' are basically losers.
So you throw up a straw man by which your 'I dumbed it down...'

Money, fame... might be selfish too, but at least offers something that pleases others...

'but people are happier with me' look better, or even seem the better way to be. So you're convinced?

I didn't find this a persuasive argument at all.

[Kriminal]

I never listen to any songs except my own. Its pointless to waste my time listening to inferior music when i can be writing awesome songs.

[nineofkings]

A lot of the argument assumes an automatic conflict between commercialism and art. I don't think they necessarily need to be opposed, even though it often seems so (especially in the American "EDM" and pop scene). Look at Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles (later in their career), ELP. What's innovative can be popular.

That's a little off topic, but I just wanted to point out that even though things seem bad, there's always been good pop music.

[Tricky-Loops]

Well, there are songwriters and copycats, and the copycats - "I'm a 13-year old producer and I'm producing for 2 years now..." - are becoming a bit more. What I miss are songs with a creative idea, a theme or a certain mood.

When someone asks "Should I make 3 or 5 or 7 drops in my track?", then I can't take it too serious. That's not songwriting. It's songwriting if you have a certain idea of a song and then you develop ideas around it. After writing it you can think about improving your drops but you cannot base your whole tune only on drops, except if you're making drop-step.

But they're still people with great songwriting skills, nineofkings or EmeraldTablet for example...