New thread, Modelonia 2.0 beta 32 64-bit Windows And Mac! (beta closed)

[pwal]

Thanks for the feedback, glad you found an use for customizing the default bank.


Anyone else tried Modelonia 2.0 beta? All comments are useful, please tell me

not yet, only just saw this! i will try & test in studio one this week sometime

[pwal]

seems ok in win7x64 in studio one 2.6.5 (x64)

[liqih]

Modelonia 2.0 beta VSTi 32-bit/64-bit compatibility list ,
from the reports I have so far,

please help to extend this list,

(columns are:
"Modelonia version - VST host - OS - what was tested")

== Modelonia 1.980 - Cubase v? 32-bit - OS Windows ? - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Cubase 8 64-bit - OS Windows 7 - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Cubase 5 64-bit - OS Windows 7 - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Ableton Live 9.2b3 (beta) 64-bit - OS Windows 7 - load and play ok, loaded older FXBs and FXPs
== Modelonia 1.980 - VstHost 32-bit - OS Windows 7 32-bit - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Reaper 32-bit - OS Windows 7 32-bit - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - EnergyXT 32-bit - OS Windows XP pro - load and play ok, save and load MIDI CC map
== Modelonia 1.980 - Chainer 32-bit - OS Windows XP pro - load and play ok, save and load MIDI CC map
== Modelonia 1.980 - Studio One v? 64-bit - OS Windows 8.1 - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Studio One 2.6.5 64-bit - OS Windows 7 64-bit - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Mulab Free v? 32-bit - OS Windows ? - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - FL Studio v? - OS Windows ? - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Tracktion v? 32-bit - OS Windows 7 64-bit - crashes
== Modelonia 1.970 - Bitwig 1.0.7 64-bit - OS Windows 7 64-bit - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.970 - Bitwig 1.0.7 32-bit - OS Windows 7 64-bit - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.970 - Mulab 5.5.2 - OS Windows 8.1 64-bits - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.970 - Reaper 4.61- OS Windows 8.1 64-bits - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.970 - Cantabile Lite 2.0- OS Windows 8.1 64-bits - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.970 - Bidule v?- OS Windows ? - load and play ok

[Musical Gym]

Modelonia 2.0 beta VSTi 32-bit/64-bit compatibility list ,
from the reports I have so far,

please help to extend this list,

(columns are:
"Modelonia version - VST host - OS - what was tested")

== Modelonia 1.980 - Studio One v? 64-bit - OS Windows 8.1 - load and play ok

Studio One version 2.6.5.30360 Win x64 built Dec. 2, 2014

[tatanka]

== Modelonia 1.980 - Mulab Free 6.36 32-bit - OS Windows 7 64-bit - home premium - load and play ok
== Modelonia 1.980 - Mulab UL 6.4.14 (beta) 32-bit - OS Windows 64-bit - home premium - load and play ok

Luigi, I see with grief that my Tracktion - System combination seems to be the only one causing problems. Would be good if anyone could verify a general problem with Tracktion before you investigate time, cause I have the suspicion that it may be something very special in my system too.

I had some problems with Mulab and Rapid Composer dealing with administrator/other win 7 (home premium ?) problems on my system too.

And a curiosity with Spire, there the problems lay in the soundcard settings (100ms latency was too much, sound was gone under Mulab but in that case NOT in Tracktion. With 50 ms was fine on both systems). But only on my home system, at work with win 7 64 bit professional and only an inbuilt chip evrything was fine with mulab.

Rapidcomposer still crashes more often then on other systems, so until someone else verifies blame it on my system I think.

Richard

[KTlin]

Hi there Luigi

I'm very very happy to see Modelonia 2 is still alive. It's a great synth, capable of producing very organic sounds.
I tried the last beta version in Ableton Live 9.1 64bit, under Windows 7 64bit. It works ok, no crashes. And, fortunately, it seems to be very easy on the CPU (quite unusual, being a physical modeling synth).
The only bug I noticed is that nothing happens when I click on the Skin button.

What I REALLY miss in this awesome synth is a powerful modulation matrix that would let me assign things like Velocity, Aftertouch, Modulation Wheel, etc. I know I can right-click any parameter and assign a CC# and a range to that parameter, and this is very cool, but it has two problems: 1. it doesn't give me an overview of the entire modulation scheme, so I have no idea what CC is assign to which parameter. 2. it doesn't give me the option to modulate certain parameters with Velocity or Aftertouch (because these are not CCs).

Cheers

Update: I think I found another bug: it seems like Modelonia doesn't respond to the sustain pedal.

[pwal]

also seems ok in win8.1x64 in studio one 2.6.5 (x64)

[Musical Gym]

Modelonia 2.0 beta VSTi 32-bit/64-bit compatibility list ,
from the reports I have so far,

please help to extend this list,

(columns are:
"Modelonia version - VST host - OS - what was tested")

== Modelonia 1.980 - Studio One v? 64-bit - OS Windows 8.1 - load and play ok

Studio One version 2.6.5.30360 Win x64 built Dec. 2, 2014

right

[liqih]

Great, thanks for the feedback,
some replies below:

>> tatanka, ok I will just try it with a Tracktion demo when I have the release candidate
of Modelonia 2.0

>> KTlin,

I'm very very happy to see Modelonia 2 is still alive. It's a great synth, capable of producing very organic sounds.
I tried the last beta version in Ableton Live 9.1 64bit, under Windows 7 64bit. It works ok, no crashes. And, fortunately, it seems to be very easy on the CPU (quite unusual, being a physical modeling synth).
The only bug I noticed is that nothing happens when I click on the Skin button.
Modelonia doesn't respond to the sustain pedal.

Quick answers,
-Skin button works when more than one skin is installed, now you have one.
-sustain pedal is a CC, you can assign it with the MIDI CC page, no?

very easy on the CPU (quite unusual, being a physical modeling synth)

thanks for noticing that, when I first relased Modelonia years ago I did my best
to make it usable on those not so powerfull computers, now it pays off,

What I REALLY miss in this awesome synth is a powerful modulation matrix that would let me assign things like Velocity, Aftertouch, Modulation Wheel, etc. I know I can right-click any parameter and assign a CC# and a range to that parameter, and this is very cool, but it has two problems: 1. it doesn't give me an overview of the entire modulation scheme, so I have no idea what CC is assign to which parameter. 2. it doesn't give me the option to modulate certain parameters with Velocity or Aftertouch (because these are not CCs).

so I have no idea what CC is assign to which parameter.

You can see the parameters animation on the GUI when you move the controller, no?

the option to modulate certain parameters with Velocity or Aftertouch (because these are not CCs)

For Aftertouch I think I can add it to the MIDI CC page, so you can assign it to any parameter like the CC.
About Velocity what you would like to add to the 3 knobs you have now, which control sensivity of the 3 exciters?

[KTlin]

First off, thanks for your reply!

Modelonia doesn't respond to the sustain pedal.

-sustain pedal is a CC, you can assign it with the MIDI CC page, no?

Well, every synth I know responds by default to the sustain pedal by blocking the note off messages for as long as the pedal is pressed. Of course I could assign it to whatever parameter I want, but I don't think that's how it should be implemented. Also, keep in mind that most of the sustain pedals send only two values for the CC64 so you'll get only two positions (min and max) for the parameter that the sustain pedal si assign to.

very easy on the CPU (quite unusual, being a physical modeling synth)

thanks for noticing that, when I first relased Modelonia years ago I did my best
to make it usable on those not so powerfull computers, now it pays off,

Yes, this is great. Thanks for making Modelonia so CPU friendly. Lately I see a trend with developers not giving too much priority (if any) to the CPU usage of their software.

so I have no idea what CC is assign to which parameter.

You can see the parameters animation on the GUI when you move the controller, no?

This is a bit funny. Of course I can see the parameters moving when I move the controllers they are assign to, but that means that I have to move all the sliders, knobs, modulation wheel, expression pedal, aftertouch, etc, just to see what controller is assign to what parameter in Modelonia. And I would have to do that for every preset/project. That's why I said a Modulation Matrix (like in Serum, Spectral, Omnisphere, Halion, etc) would be super useful. It offers you an instant overview of all the modulation routings in a patch, and it also gives you a quick way to assign modulators (like CCs, aftertouch, velocity, etc) to parameters.

the option to modulate certain parameters with Velocity or Aftertouch (because these are not CCs)

For Aftertouch I think I can add it to the MIDI CC page, so you can assign it to any parameter like the CC.
About Velocity what you would like to add to the 3 knobs you have now, which control sensivity of the 3 exciters?

I would like to be able to use Velocity (and also Aftertouch) to control as many parameters as possible (for example: XM to String, XM to Horn, R+B, Stif, Filter parameters, etc).

Cheers

[liqih]

Modelonia doesn't respond to the sustain pedal.

-sustain pedal is a CC, you can assign it with the MIDI CC page, no?

Well, every synth I know responds by default to the sustain pedal by blocking the note off messages for as long as the pedal is pressed. Of course I could assign it to whatever parameter I want, but I don't think that's how it should be implemented. Also, keep in mind that most of the sustain pedals send only two values for the CC64 so you'll get only two positions (min and max) for the parameter that the sustain pedal si assign to.

Of course you are right, but linking the sustain CC to Modelonia envelope R
with range like 20-127 you can have a good sustain effect,
but I may set it by default in standard mode as well, I have to check the code.

so I have no idea what CC is assign to which parameter.

You can see the parameters animation on the GUI when you move the controller, no?

This is a bit funny. Of course I can see the parameters moving when I move the controllers they are assign to, but that means that I have to move all the sliders, knobs, modulation wheel, expression pedal, aftertouch, etc, just to see what controller is assign to what parameter in Modelonia. And I would have to do that for every preset/project. That's why I said a Modulation Matrix (like in Serum, Spectral, Omnisphere, Halion, etc) would be super useful. It offers you an instant overview of all the modulation routings in a patch, and it also gives you a quick way to assign modulators (like CCs, aftertouch, velocity, etc) to parameters.

Yes this is serious issue, and there are varing degrees of implementation,
from synth like AAS Chromaphone which cannot assign any CC at all, to complete MIDI matrix like in Halion and others.

Plugin parameters can use host automation and many hosts (like Ableton Live macro knobs, other features in Cubase MidiShaper and Quick Controls and others FL Studio)
allow to map MIDI controllers to parameters in various ways, so it may be thought as a job for the host, not the plugin.

Usually my plugins allowed MIDI learn of CC to parameter, also one CC to multiple parameters, and that's all,
and it was considered enough by a majoriy of users for many years. Also te map is one for all instances, not per preset.

For Peti harmonium I also added Aftertouch as it was a request by many users.
Also SaxLab I made for Linplug supports Aftertouch.

For Modelonia 2.0 I introduced min max values in CC mapping for the first time.
As I wrote. For Aftertouch I think I can add it to the MIDI CC page,
so you can assign it to any parameter like the CC. (ok I made it also channel pressure, in next beta release)

Now I'm really tempted to make a complete MIDI matrix as you suggest. But it would be some work, would delay the release,
and would put the Modelonia product in a higher price range. All things to think about.

Thanks for your input.

[KTlin]

Thanks for your input.

My pleasure As I mentioned many times before, I think Modelonia is a fantastic synth and is very close to becoming my favorite plugin. It's the closest thing to Logic's Sculpture in the PC realm (Tassman as well, but unfortunately its workflow is horible). So I'm very glad if I can be of any help in Modelonia's development.

linking the sustain CC to Modelonia envelope R with range like 20-127 you can have a good sustain effect

Yes, I thought about that. It might do the trick. But I don't think it's the best solution, because, in this way, if I assign the sustain pedal (#CC64) to the Env R and set the Min-Max values to, let's say, 20-90, then when I press the pedal, Env R will jump to 90 overriding the value that was set for that patch. So, for example, if I open a patch that has the Env R set to 50, when I press the pedal it will go to 90 and when I release the pedal it will go to 20, so the patch will sound different from how it was supposed to sound, after I use the pedal once.

AAS Chromaphone which cannot assign any CC at all

I know, it's such a shame. That's why I don't use Chromaphone. As a performance synth it stinks.

Also te map is one for all instances, not per preset.

Not being able to save the CC map per preset or per project, for me, is a really big problem, quite a deal breaker actually. And that's because I'd like to use Modelonia as a performance synth, so I need to assign some CCs (mainly mod wheel and aftertouch) to different parameters for every preset I make (or for every project). So, for example, in one project I might assign the aftertouch to Noise gain and XM to string, and in other project I want to control the String LP Filter with the aftertouch, and this is why I need to be able to save the CC map with the preset and/or with the project.

For Aftertouch I think I can add it to the MIDI CC page, so you can assign it to any parameter like the CC.
Now I'm really tempted to make a complete MIDI matrix as you suggest. But it would be some work, would delay the release, and would put the Modelonia product in a higher price range. All things to think about.

A midi matrix for assigning Velocity, Aftertouch, Mod Wheel, and other CCs to different parameters would be more than awesome. I'm more than happy to wait a little more, or pay a higher price for that.

Cheers

[liqih]

Thanks for the prasie, spread the world, I need some visibility (!)
advertizing is expensive, word of mouth is all we have.

The big work is to be able to save the CC map per preset,
now modelonia save a map file for all instances.

Another note, I implemented Afertouch and Channel Pressure,
but like CC they control parameters on the GUI, not modulation per voice like Afertouch is supposed to do, basically Modelonia will handle Afertouch like the simpler Channel Pressure, the parameter linked affects all voices being played

[liqih]

Also te map is one for all instances, not per preset.

Not being able to save the CC map per preset or per project, for me, is a really big problem, quite a deal breaker actually. And that's because I'd like to use Modelonia as a performance synth, so I need to assign some CCs (mainly mod wheel and aftertouch) to different parameters for every preset I make (or for every project). So, for example, in one project I might assign the aftertouch to Noise gain and XM to string, and in other project I want to control the String LP Filter with the aftertouch, and this is why I need to be able to save the CC map with the preset and/or with the project.

That's why some users consider the host options to custom map MIDI
per project, as I wrote:
Plugin parameters can use host automation and many hosts (like Ableton Live macro knobs, other features in Cubase MidiShaper and Quick Controls and others FL Studio)
allow to map MIDI controllers to parameters in various ways, so it may be thought as a job for the host, not the plugin.
Actually is the host which provides the interface with the hardware,
so I wonder why you prefer to be the plugin to take care of that

[KTlin]

Thanks for the prasie, spread the world, I need some visibility (!)
advertizing is expensive, word of mouth is all we have.

Well, you obviously need some visibility. I just checked on youtube for Modelonia. There's absolutely nothing there. Not a single video. So, although I'll try to spread the word, my first advice to you would be to make at least a little youtube video demonstrating Modelonia's features, workflow and sound (a showcase of the best presets). Also, as I already said some time ago, a little video tutorial for how to use Modelonia, explaining what every parameter does, would be very useful because Modelonia, being a physical modeling synth, has a very different workflow, structure and features then the usual substractive/wavetable/samplers everybody is familiar with.
Have a look at this for Sound-guru's Mangle . I think it's great. In just 8 minutes you can get a pretty good idea about what is this synth, how it works and how it sounds.

And if we're at this, it looks like Modelonia is not the only PM synth without some youtube presence. It's almost the same thing with pretty much all PM synth (Tassman, NI Prism, Sculpture, Kaivo). You could hardly find a proper tutorial for these as well.