Muting a track does not mute its MIDI output

[owensands]

yes but typical DAW behavior should mute the midi stream of notes and CC mute as well imo. This also poses an issue when using external instruments that are controlled from midi clips as they don't stop the midi from triggering. Highly annoying and bitwig is the only DAW i've seen do this. Mute should mute everything imo. Also the whole mute and solo functionality of this DAW is really messed up at this time for external outs but that is a whole other issue. I bet these issues are somewhat intertwined though.

[takaii]

yes but typical DAW behavior should mute the midi stream of notes and CC mute as well imo. This also poses an issue when using external instruments that are controlled from midi clips as they don't stop the midi from triggering. Highly annoying and bitwig is the only DAW i've seen do this. Mute should mute everything imo. Also the whole mute and solo functionality of this DAW is really messed up at this time for external outs but that is a whole other issue. I bet these issues are somewhat intertwined though.

I tried this in fl studio and it behaves like bitwig It still sending notes. I tried both using the midi as plugin sending to sylenth muted channel. Still sound. Same with with using layer in fl. i mute layer still sound from sylenth1.
I dont understand why this is annoying? sure u are used to something else. but if u use bitwig regualare u should develope new habits.
Still alt+a works great, saves cpu also

[blouaap]

Soloing one track that sends MIDI to another won't mute the receiving track, because that is how the signal chain works.

Say you have Track A that Sends to Track B it becomes Track A + B, that's how it's supposed to work. So if you Solo
Track A, Track B should NOT be muted, because they are one channel now (You have to Mute Track B for silence).
Same with muting, if you mute Track A then you will still hear what A sends to B's output.

As for MIDI, the signal never gets Muted or Solo'd, ever.
Only MIDI handles MIDI, so if you want to cut off MIDI from Track A, add a MIDI plugin as your last plugin on Track A, then make the Receiving track (Track B) receive from the plugin (device), NOT Track A itself. Then Switch that last device (that is on Track A) on and off.

[goatgirl]

yes but typical DAW behavior should mute the midi stream of notes and CC mute as well imo. This also poses an issue when using external instruments that are controlled from midi clips as they don't stop the midi from triggering.

If I want to mute the MIDI from a track to an external instrument I just turn off the Hardware Instrument Device controlling it. This will stop MIDI and CC.

[takaii]

Soloing one track that sends MIDI to another won't mute the receiving track, because that is how the signal chain works.

Say you have Track A that Sends to Track B it becomes Track A + B, that's how it's supposed to work. So if you Solo
Track A, Track B should NOT be muted, because they are one channel now (You have to Mute Track B for silence).
Same with muting, if you mute Track A then you will still hear what A sends to B's output.

+1

[takaii]

yes but typical DAW behavior should mute the midi stream of notes and CC mute as well imo. This also poses an issue when using external instruments that are controlled from midi clips as they don't stop the midi from triggering.

If I want to mute the MIDI from a track to an external instrument I just turn off the Hardware Instrument Device controlling it. This will stop MIDI and CC.

yep. if you have audio input routed back you can mute the audio. =)

[Ch00rD]

Both mute and solo are shortcuts for the volume fader. When engaged, it has the effect of turning the fader to minimum. Likewise, Solo has the effect of turning every other fader to minimum, allowing you to hear only the audio of the track(s) you are soloing. To me, this make semantic sense.

But, as I have shown above, that is not how things work in Bitwig: if you solo a track which sends notes to another track with an instrument, but does not produce any audio output, the audio output of the latter track is not muted:



So your explanation does not seem to be correct; blouaap's explanation seems to do a better job.

Still, nobody is addressing what seems to be the most important question here, imho: how it could negatively affect anything if the mute and solo buttons would affect MIDI as well as audio? The advantages seem obvious: it would provide a much simpler yet more powerful and flexible workflow.

Are you really suggesting that the volume fader affects the MIDI data too?

No, I haven't suggested that at all.

But it may be useful to *optionally* make the volume fader send MIDI CC#7 (and 39, for high resolution) or affect note-on velocities, though. That's a completely different discussion, though.

[Ch00rD]

[edit: I messed up an edit of the previous post for some reason]

[takaii]

Both mute and solo are shortcuts for the volume fader. When engaged, it has the effect of turning the fader to minimum. Likewise, Solo has the effect of turning every other fader to minimum, allowing you to hear only the audio of the track(s) you are soloing. To me, this make semantic sense.

But, as I have shown above, that is not how things work in Bitwig: if you solo a track which sends notes to another track with an instrument, but does not produce any audio output, the audio output of the latter track is not muted:



So your explanation does not seem to be correct; blouaap's explanation seems to do a better job.

Still, nobody is addressing what seems to be the most important question here, imho: how it could negatively affect anything if the mute and solo buttons would affect MIDI as well as audio? The advantages seem obvious: it would provide a much simpler yet more powerful and flexible workflow.

Are you really suggesting that the volume fader affects the MIDI data too?

No, I haven't suggested that at all.

But it may be useful to *optionally* make the volume fader send MIDI CC#7 (and 39, for high resolution) or affect note-on velocities, though. That's a completely different discussion, though.

read what blouaap wrote. Explains well whats happening

[blouaap]

I would never want MIDI or Audio to traverse on the same paths.
Track Solo/Mute should NEVER do what they are supposed to do on MIDI, EVER.

Rather just use something like Note Filter, turn it all to 0 and turn Note Filter on to break the MIDI chain.
Or maybe Bitwig can add a dedicated MIDI Chain "Terminator".

[takaii]

I would never want MIDI or Audio to traverse on the same paths.
Track Solo/Mute should NEVER do what they are supposed to do on MIDI, EVER.

Rather just use something like Note Filter, turn it all to 0 and turn Note Filter on to break the MIDI chain.
Or maybe Bitwig can add a dedicated MIDI Chain "Terminator".

However there is actually one problem. If you have 2 tracks. On one u use a thirdparty plugin with sidechain input option, select the other channel to sidechain from. Then solo the track which is sending to the channel that is sidechained. you will hear audio on the sender channel from the sidechain out. Really wierd. That is a bug however

[TeePee]

If you direct monitor an external synth, you need that track's MIDI to switch off when you mute the track or solo another track. Otherwise, your direct monitored external synths just carry on playing the MIDI when you want them muted or soloed out.

If you're monitoring via the Hardware Instrument plugin, then muting the audio does the job, but I can see the argument for stopping the MIDI instead of the audio because you get less clicks and pops when you mute/stop the MIDI by sending a load of note offs.

Either way, you have to stop the MIDI on tracks sending to synths that are NOT being monitored through Bitwig. The solo and mute buttons are the most convenient way to do this. An option to "Also Mute MIDI" on a track by track basis would be ideal.

[takaii]

If you direct monitor an external synth, you need that track's MIDI to switch off when you mute the track or solo another track. Otherwise, your direct monitored external synths just carry on playing the MIDI when you want them muted or soloed out.

If you're monitoring via the Hardware Instrument plugin, then muting the audio does the job, but I can see the argument for stopping the MIDI instead of the audio because you get less clicks and pops when you mute/stop the MIDI by sending a load of note offs.

Either way, you have to stop the MIDI on tracks sending to synths that are NOT being monitored through Bitwig. The solo and mute buttons are the most convenient way to do this. An option to "Also Mute MIDI" on a track by track basis would be ideal.

Why not throw in every function of every daw and make it work like everything that exist. No more complains. but would u use something you cant find a simple function off? i think bitwig works like a charm. Just mute device works on hardwere then it dont send midi. Something that is as new as bitwig often attrackts other daw users from other daws, when they figure out it doesnt work like they are used to all hell breaks loose. hehe. Its a reason its another daw. i havent been proven yet why we really need mute midi on same as audio...

[blouaap]

However there is actually one problem. If you have 2 tracks. On one u use a thirdparty plugin with sidechain input option, select the other channel to sidechain from. Then solo the track which is sending to the channel that is sidechained. you will hear audio on the sender channel from the sidechain out. Really wierd. That is a bug however

That is not a bug, that's exactly what should be expected. You turn 2 tracks into one track if you route from one to another. If you solo the first track that routes to another, then it should have no effect on the second track. Basically becomes a useless button on the first track.

Bitwig and Ableton is not the same linear type DAWs of old. The tracks become not only audio channels, they become MIDI and signal channels too. So MIDI will keep going until a VST or Native plug "Terminates" the signal flow (Same for audio).

In Bitwig you can Send and Recieve from any Node in the current project.
EG:

-Add a Drum Rack to Track #1 with a e-kick, with midi clip, mute the Track
-Add a Audio Receiver to Track #2 where the Source is the Drum Machine>Devices>e-kick out

You should hear the kick on Track #2

-BUT-

If you don't use a Receiver, but instead use the Track #2's input with the same Drum Machine>Devices>e-kick out source, you should hear nothing if Track #1 is muted, because you are not bypassing the signal flow with a Receiver.

There is good reason for this.
For example:

People side chain in multiple ways.
A muted audio track that sends Audio and MIDI somewhere else (like a synth kick), but you don't want to hear that synth kick.
The midi notes gets used in another track as well that has the actual Kick you want to hear. So you using a muted Audio signal as a Sidechain source (And midi clip source), but not as an audio source. Like a helper channel so to speak. Useful for side chaining in heavy distorted kick tracks like Hardstyle, where the distorted Kick's signal is a bit too rough if you want to side chain it to something.

[takaii]

However there is actually one problem. If you have 2 tracks. On one u use a thirdparty plugin with sidechain input option, select the other channel to sidechain from. Then solo the track which is sending to the channel that is sidechained. you will hear audio on the sender channel from the sidechain out. Really wierd. That is a bug however

That is not a bug, that's exactly what should be expected. You turn 2 tracks into one track if you route from one to another. If you solo the first track that routes to another, then it should have no effect on the second track. Basically becomes a useless button on the first track.

Bitwig and Ableton is not the same linear type DAWs of old. The tracks become not only audio channels, they become MIDI and signal channels too. So MIDI will keep going until a VST or Native plug "Terminates" the signal flow (Same for audio).

In Bitwig you can Send and Recieve from any Node in the current project.
EG:

-Add a Drum Rack to Track #1 with a e-kick, with midi clip, mute the Track
-Add a Audio Receiver to Track #2 where the Source is the Drum Machine>Devices>e-kick out

You should hear the kick on Track #2

-BUT-

If you don't use a Receiver, but instead use the Track #2's input with the same Drum Machine>Devices>e-kick out source, you should hear nothing if Track #1 is muted, because you are not bypassing the signal flow with a Receiver.

There is good reason for this.
For example:

People side chain in multiple ways.
A muted audio track that sends Audio and MIDI somewhere else (like a synth kick), but you don't want to hear that synth kick.
The midi notes gets used in another track as well that has the actual Kick you want to hear. So you using a muted Audio signal as a Sidechain source (And midi clip source), but not as an audio source. Like a helper channel so to speak. Useful for side chaining in heavy distorted kick tracks like Hardstyle, where the distorted Kick's signal is a bit too rough if you want to side chain it to something.

Lol it is a bug i dont think you understand what i mean -.- I´ll make a video tomorrow just for u