KVR Audio

JerGoertz · Post by **JerGoertz** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:43 pm

Great post, agree completely.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:43 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:Societies have rules for a reason. Not all societies have equally rational rules, admittedly. Social groups also have rules (with the same caveat as above). Let one person break the rules regularly, without consequence, then everyone expects no consequences. Then what's the point of rules?

Rules of engagement are what civilization is all about, so it's best to enforce them as consistently as possible or suffer them becoming irrelevant and failing to serve any purpose. It's not about being "PC". PC is just BS to avoid upsetting special interests. "Political correctness" isn't about civility.

The social rules should be about civility, not special interests. If they aren't, then that's a failure to lead. If certain members got free passes to behave in an uncivil manner, that's special interest. From what I have seen, the issue in this context was entirely about civility. Is Kriminal a nice guy in person? Great. Too bad he couldn't be equally nice in the forums. The same holds true for the recently booted developer. Doesn't matter how helpful or interesting he was outside the context of his uncivil behavior on the forum.

If you can't be bothered to get on with people here in a civil manner, after being warned repeatedly, go somewhere else. Some of us have no desire to perpetually tolerate intolerable people. Rules for civil behavior are generally good for the group, even if favorite characters get themselves kicked out.

I couldn't agree less.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:37 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:Societies have rules for a reason. Not all societies have equally rational rules, admittedly. Social groups also have rules (with the same caveat as above). Let one person break the rules regularly, without consequence, then everyone expects no consequences. Then what's the point of rules?

Rules of engagement are what civilization is all about, so it's best to enforce them as consistently as possible or suffer them becoming irrelevant and failing to serve any purpose. It's not about being "PC". PC is just BS to avoid upsetting special interests. "Political correctness" isn't about civility.

The social rules should be about civility, not special interests. If they aren't, then that's a failure to lead. If certain members got free passes to behave in an uncivil manner, that's special interest. From what I have seen, the issue in this context was entirely about civility. Is Kriminal a nice guy in person? Great. Too bad he couldn't be equally nice in the forums. The same holds true for the recently booted developer. Doesn't matter how helpful or interesting he was outside the context of his uncivil behavior on the forum.

If you can't be bothered to get on with people here in a civil manner, after being warned repeatedly, go somewhere else. Some of us have no desire to perpetually tolerate intolerable people. Rules for civil behavior are generally good for the group, even if favorite characters get themselves kicked out.
I couldn't agree less.

I don't agree with much of that either.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:43 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:If you can't be bothered to get on with people here in a civil manner, after being warned repeatedly, go somewhere else. Some of us have no desire to perpetually tolerate intolerable people. Rules for civil behavior are generally good for the group, even if favorite characters get themselves kicked out.

That is true, and then a user is put in stasis, but that can't last forever.

The argument would be that the culprit has served the time and can return.

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:52 pm

I was on the 'Kriminal 2' beta team. Much like version 1, everything seems alright until it randomly crashes, and goes into meltdown

I aint goin' near it till at least 2.2

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:39 pm

No one needs to agree with me. However: They do need to either follow the rules of a community or exit the community. Especially if it's not a community where they can change the rules. If the community changes its rules for special cases (due to community member pressure), so be it, but that only sows seeds of future discontent when a non-favorite is not equally excused from the rules, or when favoritism itself becomes the (justified) complaint. Unjust laws should be challenged, so discuss the justice of a law by all means (and community rules). But inconsistently applied laws/rules are nothing more than the tools of special interests and are antisocial.

Or so goes the theory. The practice ... well... corruption is at disgusting levels in my society.

JerGoertz · Post by **JerGoertz** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:54 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:No one needs to agree with me. However: They do need to either follow the rules of a community or exit the community. Especially if it's not a community where they can change the rules. If the community changes its rules for special cases (due to community member pressure), so be it, but that only sows seeds of future discontent when a non-favorite is not equally excused from the rules, or when favoritism itself becomes the (justified) complaint. Unjust laws should be challenged, so discuss the justice of a law by all means (and community rules). But inconsistently applied laws/rules are nothing more than the tools of special interests and are antisocial.

Or so goes the theory. The practice ... well... corruption is at disgusting levels in my society.

I've noticed certain cases of favoritism and/or selective application of the rules here for quite a while, so you're not alone in your observation there... And with that I'll re-commit to leaving this thread alone. These things usually end in flamefests and nobody's opinions are changed.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:59 pm

This thread is certainly on a slippery slope.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:00 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote:This thread is certainly on a slippery slope.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2

Good one

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:02 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:Societies have rules for a reason. Not all societies have equally rational rules, admittedly. Social groups also have rules (with the same caveat as above). Let one person break the rules regularly, without consequence, then everyone expects no consequences. Then what's the point of rules?

Rules of engagement are what civilization is all about, so it's best to enforce them as consistently as possible or suffer them becoming irrelevant and failing to serve any purpose. It's not about being "PC". PC is just BS to avoid upsetting special interests. "Political correctness" isn't about civility.

The social rules should be about civility, not special interests. If they aren't, then that's a failure to lead. If certain members got free passes to behave in an uncivil manner, that's special interest. From what I have seen, the issue in this context was entirely about civility. Is Kriminal a nice guy in person? Great. Too bad he couldn't be equally nice in the forums. The same holds true for the recently booted developer. Doesn't matter how helpful or interesting he was outside the context of his uncivil behavior on the forum.

If you can't be bothered to get on with people here in a civil manner, after being warned repeatedly, go somewhere else. Some of us have no desire to perpetually tolerate intolerable people. Rules for civil behavior are generally good for the group, even if favorite characters get themselves kicked out.
I couldn't agree less.

I don't think you're trying hard enough. I bet if you really wanted to you could agree a little less. How about this for a compromse? Anyone who wants to be bullied and treated like crap can IM me with their personal email address and I'll send a daily abusive email out. Maybe I'll do a it subscription based. How much would you pay a month to have me act like a jerk to you?

experimental.crow · Post by **experimental.crow** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:06 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:Societies have rules for a reason. Not all societies have equally rational rules, admittedly. Social groups also have rules (with the same caveat as above). Let one person break the rules regularly, without consequence, then everyone expects no consequences. Then what's the point of rules?

Rules of engagement are what civilization is all about, so it's best to enforce them as consistently as possible or suffer them becoming irrelevant and failing to serve any purpose. It's not about being "PC". PC is just BS to avoid upsetting special interests. "Political correctness" isn't about civility.

The social rules should be about civility, not special interests. If they aren't, then that's a failure to lead. If certain members got free passes to behave in an uncivil manner, that's special interest. From what I have seen, the issue in this context was entirely about civility. Is Kriminal a nice guy in person? Great. Too bad he couldn't be equally nice in the forums. The same holds true for the recently booted developer. Doesn't matter how helpful or interesting he was outside the context of his uncivil behavior on the forum.

If you can't be bothered to get on with people here in a civil manner, after being warned repeatedly, go somewhere else. Some of us have no desire to perpetually tolerate intolerable people. Rules for civil behavior are generally good for the group, even if favorite characters get themselves kicked out.
I couldn't agree less.
I don't think you're trying hard enough. I bet if you really wanted to you could agree a little less. How about this for a compromse? Anyone who wants to be bullied and treated like crap can IM me with their personal email address and I'll send a daily abusive email out. Maybe I'll do a it subscription based. How much would you pay a month to have me act like a jerk to you?

i'll take the blow to the 'ead ...

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:28 am

But abuse is free across most of the Internet. Public comments on any article, Facebook...

Orbit-50 · Post by **Orbit-50** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:50 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:But abuse is free across most of the Internet. Public comments on any article, Facebook...

Yeah, but it's not easy to find high quality free abuse. I started paying for mine years ago because of that. Never looked back since.

ccDuckett · Post by **ccDuckett** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:15 am

"Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!"

ATN69 · Post by **ATN69** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:35 am

Just look around here. KVR is a reflection of the society as a whole. I meet and deal with people on a Daily basis in my "real" Life who don't know how to discuss things. "If you dont agree with me I will kill you" attitude and "I know more than you because I am better than you" attitude is not uncommon here, as in the Life outside KVR. Every time I face such person I just remind myself that this person have issues and it has nothing to do with me. Just feel sorry for them and move on

..and trying to discuss with a brick wall is futile and will never lead to anything good