Am I the only one who couldn't care less about touchscreen?

[anp27]

I agree i hate touch, becuase you touch a knob, yet cant feel it, just feels retarded for me. Anyone's free for opinion, but the whole idea for touch is more that "it's cool" then useful imo, i hate touching on screens for music, mice and keyboard is the closest i wanna touch when making music. Touch is for some really cool, but bitwig should focus on adding fades comping etc, not making touch friendly users happy. It has nothing to do with music, just how you use the daw that is different. Yet the remaning important features for music, recording etc is missing while midi should be implemented better.

I absolutely agree with every word you said.

Way more important things to worry about, focus on and address than "Touch":
1. Multi Take recording/comping
2. I'll say it again and again.... Flexible MIDI routing because we are not there yet
3. etc..etc..

[shonoob]

I agree i hate touch, becuase you touch a knob, yet cant feel it, just feels retarded for me. Anyone's free for opinion, but the whole idea for touch is more that "it's cool" then useful imo, i hate touching on screens for music, mice and keyboard is the closest i wanna touch when making music. Touch is for some really cool, but bitwig should focus on adding fades comping etc, not making touch friendly users happy. It has nothing to do with music, just how you use the daw that is different. Yet the remaning important features for music, recording etc is missing while midi should be implemented better.

I absolutely agree with every word you said.

Way more important things to worry about, focus on and address than "Touch":
1. Multi Take recording/comping
2. I'll say it again and again.... Flexible MIDI routing because we are not there yet
3. etc..etc..

+1

[Cyoon]

well, considering the lower sales on desktop computers and the rise of tablets it is just a normal market reaction and offers a lot of benefit. With the collab feature, one could have his desktop session running and the tablet in front of you just like a mixing desk, way more compfortable than mixing with the mouse. I'm really looking forward to ditch lemur when the collab feature offers that, because it is so much less hassle.

Those simple features mentioned like fades and whatnot will surely mature, but i think it's a good idea to also focus on touch devices and have it integrated from the early days than doing it later.

[2ZrgE]

Same here, not really interested in touch (and I also don't want to/cannot spend that large amount of money to buy a usable touch device). Maybe in a couple of years the prices for those devices will be more consumer-friendly.

But understandable, it's called USP (unique selling proposition) in marketing terms, they have to have sth that distinguishes them from the rest, the competition is strong. Ableton or FL Studio (main competitors) will head in the same direction (Ableton surely will come up with sth special for Live 10).

[takaii]

Same here, not really interested in touch (and I also don't want to/cannot spend that large amount of money to buy a usable touch device). Maybe in a couple of years the prices for those devices will be more consumer-friendly.

But understandable, it's called USP (unique selling proposition) in marketing terms, they have to have sth that distinguishes them from the rest, the competition is strong. Ableton or FL Studio (main competitors) will head in the same direction (Ableton surely will come up with sth special for Live 10).

Yes they will make sell numbers in new areas. But consider that a lot of people wait to buy bitwig until they have time signature, comping and fades etc etc. Making it full. That would make a lot of more attraction. There are so many times ive read and seen people say "i wait to buy bitwig until fades comes", or "i wait to buy bitwig until comping, midi routing out per channel comes" Never ive read read that "i want bitwig on surface pro". What ive seen though is people wanting support for ipad, like a controller for bitwig etc. Some peopel want bitwig on ipad entirely. But these is small numbers compaired to what people want in their music software. To stand out as a music program you will still need the basics down. You cant say " We have touch in a way other dont", the other companies will just say... pft we have a dedicated music software not touch play software, you will access to library of functions where you can fit every need, for post recording, for movie, recording vocals we got you covered. Well anyway i think bitwig is amazing but sometimes makes the worst decision also in what order they add things. Yet impressive v1 daw.

[anp27]

There are so many times ive read and seen people say "i wait to buy bitwig until fades comes", or "i wait to buy bitwig until comping, midi routing out per channel comes" Never ive read read that "i want bitwig on surface pro". .

+1. This is actually very true.

[Andrei Marchenko]

Remember the time when i troll this thing about touch version and Microsoft. Nobody wanted listen to me. But now time put everything in its place. Today is desktop era and notebook era! In near future - yes, will be era of touch devices and etc. For sure this choice was right for USP but not for real customers. Real customers want really working functions and good in-build devices. Today most people don't want to spend money on it. + How many people using Macs? Yes. Many. Also for live performances macs still on top This Thavius Beck and surface promo video - just advertisement for kindergarten. That's my 2c here.

[anp27]

Remember the time when i troll this thing about touch version and Microsoft. Nobody wanted listen to me. But now time put everything in its place. Today is desktop era and notebook era! In near future - yes, will be era of touch devices and etc. For sure this choice was right for USP but not for real customers. Real customers want really working functions and good in-build devices. Today most people don't want to spend money on it. + How many people using Macs? Yes. Many. Also for live performances macs still on top This Thavius Beck and surface promo video - just advertisement for kindergarten. That's my 2c here.

haha Geek Model... I think sometimes the way you post your views on this forum might come across as trolling.. maybe it's your choice of words that's a bit "off" sometimes..

[Andrei Marchenko]

Sorry

[WXLF]

I don't have a tablet that runs windows.. But if i did, i would surely love to sit in a hammock somewhere relaxing and just sketch patterns into the clip launcher all day. It's a bit easier to curl up with a tablet than a laptop. Then when there is enough raw material, I could load the project into the computer where I have all the studio gear setup and build off of that.

edit: deleted.. no point.

[ThomasHelzle]

I see this a bit differently.
I so far have no touch screen but Bitwigs implementation actually makes me interested in getting one for the first time.
Not as main screen, but as a secondary screen sitting tilted on the side next to my keyboard.
As soon as the touch interface can be used on a second screen while the main one stays in mouse mode I may get one, I think I'd enjoy that. Many things don't make sense to me doing with fingers, but others make no sense to me doing with the singular mouse/pen. So like Suloo I would see it as multitouch controller.
I would also be interested in the instrument aspect, since all the MPE controllers I tested so far were not totally up to my expectations. I found that the surfaces of those instruments often make it hard to play them. The Rise is too uneven to really pitch-slide over larger areas IMO, the LinnStrument felt too sticky for my taste. So while a touchscreen has no tactile feedback, I would still be interested in trying it out for expressive note input in X/Y.
We now see pressure sensitive touch screens, there are the first examples of touch screens that actually give you tactile feedback. Overall a LOT of development goes into these things. So I am sure this will become much more interesting over time.

Another aspect for me is, that being innovative isn't as linear as you guys seem to think. If all you are concerned about is comping, time signatures and fades, there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that. Being innovative means sometimes to be disruptive up to a point. If you just do what everybody does and what's there already, you are not innovative. Sometimes you need to try out new things, sometimes it will work out, sometimes not, but if you don't, you'll never find out.
Apple was the classical example for that in their earlier years.

And since the day has only so many hours, yes, something else will get a bit less attention, and of course it is the one thing you personally think is the bees knee

As for Microsoft: If a small company has the opportunity to play with the big boys, it's always a bit of a mixed blessing. On one hand it's cool and you get a lot more exposure to people who may have never heard of you otherwise. On the other hand you may become "visible" in a "dangerous" way, see Apple/Camel Audio. I don't see Microsoft taking over Bitwig, but I also never would have expected the Camel Audio deal. Or Autodesk buying and killing off Softimage XSI.
But these things are part of the world we live in, so I don't spend too much time thinking or worrying about them.

As for people waiting to buy bitwig until it has feature X/Y: You can't base your decisions on those. When working in support I learned, that there are just as many such things as there are customers. And yes, some of them actually bought BWS when they were implemented (a LOT of stuff HAS been implemented already, remember? ) some others didn't for whatever reasons.
Each time you tick off something from your loooong list (Group Tracks, check), your list isn't getting any shorter, since other people want other things just as much as those who wanted Group Tracks before.
And each feature you personally think is superimportant will leave many other users completely cold.

We'll see how it all plays out, I personally am just as curious as ever to see where this will go.

Cheers,

Tom

[anp27]

there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that.

But here's the thing... I do want to be able to use just ONE DAW. I'm sick of people telling me that it's ok to use more than one.. that you can have different DAWs to do different things.. why in 2016, can't we just have one DAW that can finally do everything? Ok, probably not everything, but at least almost everything and definitely the things that are truly essential.

Bitwig is really soo close to being the perfect DAW, at least for me anyway and I think for many of us in this forum too. I would have liked them to concentrate more on the essentials first before spending time on the Touch stuff, just get them out of the way, you know?

I too am very curious to see what they do next and I do understand that Bitwig is very young still. I just hope that they won't take too long to implement these features that I feel are essential.

[takaii]

I see this a bit differently.
I so far have no touch screen but Bitwigs implementation actually makes me interested in getting one for the first time.
Not as main screen, but as a secondary screen sitting tilted on the side next to my keyboard.
As soon as the touch interface can be used on a second screen while the main one stays in mouse mode I may get one, I think I'd enjoy that. Many things don't make sense to me doing with fingers, but others make no sense to me doing with the singular mouse/pen. So like Suloo I would see it as multitouch controller.
I would also be interested in the instrument aspect, since all the MPE controllers I tested so far were not totally up to my expectations. I found that the surfaces of those instruments often make it hard to play them. The Rise is too uneven to really pitch-slide over larger areas IMO, the LinnStrument felt too sticky for my taste. So while a touchscreen has no tactile feedback, I would still be interested in trying it out for expressive note input in X/Y.
We now see pressure sensitive touch screens, there are the first examples of touch screens that actually give you tactile feedback. Overall a LOT of development goes into these things. So I am sure this will become much more interesting over time.

Another aspect for me is, that being innovative isn't as linear as you guys seem to think. If all you are concerned about is comping, time signatures and fades, there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that. Being innovative means sometimes to be disruptive up to a point. If you just do what everybody does and what's there already, you are not innovative. Sometimes you need to try out new things, sometimes it will work out, sometimes not, but if you don't, you'll never find out.
Apple was the classical example for that in their earlier years.

And since the day has only so many hours, yes, something else will get a bit less attention, and of course it is the one thing you personally think is the bees knee

As for Microsoft: If a small company has the opportunity to play with the big boys, it's always a bit of a mixed blessing. On one hand it's cool and you get a lot more exposure to people who may have never heard of you otherwise. On the other hand you may become "visible" in a "dangerous" way, see Apple/Camel Audio. I don't see Microsoft taking over Bitwig, but I also never would have expected the Camel Audio deal. Or Autodesk buying and killing off Softimage XSI.
But these things are part of the world we live in, so I don't spend too much time thinking or worrying about them.

As for people waiting to buy bitwig until it has feature X/Y: You can't base your decisions on those. When working in support I learned, that there are just as many such things as there are customers. And yes, some of them actually bought BWS when they were implemented (a LOT of stuff HAS been implemented already, remember? ) some others didn't for whatever reasons.
Each time you tick off something from your loooong list (Group Tracks, check), your list isn't getting any shorter, since other people want other things just as much as those who wanted Group Tracks before.
And each feature you personally think is superimportant will leave many other users completely cold.

We'll see how it all plays out, I personally am just as curious as ever to see where this will go.

Cheers,

Tom

Tom, the ever defending champion of talking positive only about bitwig. Yet could not hurt a fly...

I love to agree, but its a music software, comping is necessary fades etc etc etc. Like you say there are others software for that? But why make a daw if its not suppose to be able to do basic things like a daw should? To be able to record, to make traditional music etc etc. inoative you say, well its all about balance, how to implement old functions in a new way can also be innovative. Adding a totally new feature does not mean its good to make music or making it in a new way. But for market might be smart collabing with microsoft, thanks to that they got into their add with surface pro 4 launch. Sure might pay off for bitwig as company, but for us who makes music i couldnt care less about a fancy thing that pretty much just is sparcles and glitter. I think bitwig probably made a good move for the company but what we users want is something different in the long run. I hope this didnt slow up bitwig to much, it was not just an interface adding, a lot with touch and stuff, more bug fixing and slowing down the rest in general. Curious if 1.2 got released slower because of this, feels like it was meant for 1.2 but they split it up in 2 updates. Anyway i will not talk shit about this anymore, it doesnt help, it is allready in bitwig. Now bitwig has to refine that part also because now bitwig has costumers depending on the touch interface. Pretty stupid i think because now there is more than linux, osx and windows to fix, there is surface also. But it sure made some people happy, they just want ability to draw automation now which bitwig has to add thanks to making it touch so early on

[takaii]

there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that.

But here's the thing... I do want to be able to use just ONE DAW. I'm sick of people telling me that it's ok to use more than one.. that you can have different DAWs to do different things.. why in 2016, can't we just have one DAW that can finally do everything? Ok, probably not everything, but at least almost everything and definitely the things that are truly essential.

Bitwig is really soo close to being the perfect DAW, at least for me anyway and I think for many of us in this forum too. I would have liked them to concentrate more on the essentials first before spending time on the Touch stuff, just get them out of the way, you know?

I too am very curious to see what they do next and I do understand that Bitwig is very young still. I just hope that they won't take too long to implement these features that I feel are essential.

Totally agree, and we all dont have money to spend on ableton etc. But as tom is a "nice guy" he sure is pretty ignorant sometimes. No offence tom i think you are a wonderful person. BUt the way you write that we can use others daws make you ignorant...

yeah agree spending time getting the essential out of the way, then its easier being innovative also, but old functions can be added in a innovativ way

[Scotty]

I agree completely with this Tom. If Bitwig supported multi monitors with a combination of touch and mouse control, I'd add a touch screen to my studio. Having the ability to grab knobs without mapping them or fussing with controllers would be great but I don't want my entire workflow reinterpreted for complete touch screens control. IN fact I am hoping Cubase would allow the same thing whereby a Plugin or mixer would open on a touch enabled screen so it can be used when it makes sense to use it. I have experimented with audio editing on the IPAD and it works very well for some functions but not for others. Give us the flexibility of configuration and I'll be happy and will not resent the development time required. - Scotty

I see this a bit differently.
I so far have no touch screen but Bitwigs implementation actually makes me interested in getting one for the first time.
Not as main screen, but as a secondary screen sitting tilted on the side next to my keyboard.
As soon as the touch interface can be used on a second screen while the main one stays in mouse mode I may get one, I think I'd enjoy that. Many things don't make sense to me doing with fingers, but others make no sense to me doing with the singular mouse/pen. So like Suloo I would see it as multitouch controller.

Cheers,

Tom