VST for Hard German Bass?

[WhiteNoise]

I think a lot of the sound has to do with the pitch bending and maybe some mod wheel tweaking of filters. All these sounds have some kind of pitch envelope on them. I would recommend sampling some synths and then applying some wacky pitch bends (Sound Forge's pitch bend function works well for me). I tried to duplicate this sound a while ago and I found the best way was to sample some stuff then mess around with effects.

[annode]

Talk is cheap...and that`s all i`m hearing!

Kompulsor,I leave you with all the experts here,(not everyone).

Xanda123 sez;

no offence annode and Xander but they are no where near, they have no umph to them when you got just a single note on the off beat it needs to rip right in to you ear

If you read what I wrote,and could see how my demo relates to how it actually can be done in a reasonable way,you wouldn`t have said that.
I did a fast job ,as I said,and it shows enough to fashion the sound he`s after,close enough,just using a bit of technique and some imagination.

PS: WhiteNoise,I do agree with you 100%.

[kritikon]

Any chance you can demonstrate that for me as well,as in posting an audio example of that with imposcar?
Would love to hear that!

I would, but I don't have a website etc. But impOSCar isn't the only VSTi that can make very aggressive bass sounds. Believe it or not you can actually make very hard bass sounds with something like Crystal - I've got a patch somewhere, that is exactly that kind of "Harthouse" bass. (Harthouse was a label that was making that type of hard Germanic techno several years ago - it's certainly not a new sound). With Crystal the secret is in the layering, as it doesn't have strong enough filters on its own. Use three saws or PWMs even - detune 2 of them slightly up and down from the centre original, and apply oscillator sync to make it raw.

And I didn't hear any pitch mod on the examples given - if there was, then it was very subtle, and not the character of the sound. Simple hard edged filters and/or FX is the key - there's nothing amazing going on in those basslines. It probably wasn't even layered. I'll have another listen to them in a moment, but my main thought is that they've simply used a hard sound (and yes, Waldorf would be a good bet) with a simple patch, then compressed the f**k out of it, with some overdrive/distortion either underneath or on top of the compression. Powerful sounds don't need layering and layering and fancy gimmicks - they just need good use of dynamics and good mixing to make its own space.

Back shortly.

[Earprotector]

yes it is really simple to get this sound with different synthis...like imposcar and so on, i do it 1 year ago with the synapse junglist or delta i am not sure but there was a pad sound that need only a little bit of tweeking....
But this bass sound is atmost not german style it comes out on hardstyle labels in the netherlands like from dj´s like isaac and so on...the german scene comes with this bass again later i mean they see that hardstyle from the nl get bigger and bigger...

[xanda123]

Talk is cheap...and that`s all i`m hearing!

Kompulsor,I leave you with all the experts here,(not everyone).

Xanda123 sez;

no offence annode and Xander but they are no where near, they have no umph to them when you got just a single note on the off beat it needs to rip right in to you ear

If you read what I wrote,and could see how my demo relates to how it actually can be done in a reasonable way,you wouldn`t have said that.
I did a fast job ,as I said,and it shows enough to fashion the sound he`s after,close enough,just using a bit of technique and some imagination.

PS: WhiteNoise,I do agree with you 100%.

Theres no need to get arsey, Hard Trance is what I make and the sound you made doesn't even come close, I way not be a expert at synthesis but I am an expert at Hard Trance and I know what sound makes a good bassline.

[kritikon]

Ok - I've had another good listen - could be any number of synths and not necessarily anything special either. I initially thought they were using a 303, but if they were, then they weren't very good at it. Probably an emulation of a 303. But could be s/w or h/w - could be (deep breath) a Waldorf, an MS10/20, OSCar/impOSCar, 101/202/303/ Claw, Creakbox, JX3P, it could even be an FM Yamaha DX (yes you can make similar sounds if you program them well, believe it or not) - as you can see - it could any number of synths or VSTis.

And there's no pitch envelope on it either - that's just way too complicated - nobody in their right mind would do that for that type of bassline - if only for the reason that it means you can't do anything else with the sound apart from play single notes of exactly the same length with it.
What it is, is a second note pitched up usually by an octave played legato after the main off-beat note - the second note is shortened so that you only get a hint of the slide upwards, and not the main body of another note and you set the portamento time to whatever gives you just a hint of the rise- it's a standard trick when you use 101/202/303s - or in fact any older sequenced synth. You can do it with any midi synth by sequencing in pitchbend as well - but again that is simply too much like hard work. It's what the slides on 202s/303s were made for (well...it wasn't, but it's what they are best used for often)

MP3#2 - nothing at all special apart from the fact it's got a good filter going with the sound. There's no pitch modulation again - not even portamento slides probably - if you've never heard good old h/w synths in full flight, then you wouldn't recognise that sound - it sounds a little like it is pitching - but a really good LPF does that. You patch it up just right, and the filtering down of the frequencies can sound very much like pitching. Used to make lots of those sounds on my old JX3P when I had it. Can still do it on me trusty old 202. ImpOSCar can do it. Listen to the "distorted kick" preset on the old Roland AlphaJuno - it's surprising what a decent analogue filter can do even when it's not self-oscillating!

And they probably didn't use particularly heavy compression or distortion on it either - it sounds a little to me that it could be just plain and simple light distortion put over the whole mix, or a subgroup - there was a craze a few years back for Dutch techno to be distorted.

Try something like Claw - that can come very close to the first sound at least - it's the sequencing and the portamento that'll give you the bit extra.

[valley]

And there's no pitch envelope on it either - that's just way too complicated - nobody in their right mind would do that for that type of bassline - if only for the reason that it means you can't do anything else with the sound apart from play single notes of exactly the same length with it.

They *are* single notes.

A lot of Dutch/German techno stuff did the pitch decay to excess. Think Labwerks, or Ruffneck circa 1993. The effect is not unlike an angry version of the single hit basswarp sound used in some early d'n'b.

[Deranger604]

After listening to the samples... I just have to say.

.... Trilogy or Bass Station

[gunark]

I'm doing a similar track at the mo using Trilogy and the grouped bassline and bassdrum + compression trick. By comping the bass and bd just right you get the sucking sound going and the whomp of the bass comes thru when the bd drops out. So in my experience it's more down to the compression than the synth (I've done similar in Reason with a subtractor too which isn't so heavy as Trilogy).

[Kompulsor]

So let me summarize the main points so far:

This is what I need
1) Claw VST
2) Bazzoid VST
3) Distortion FX (still waiting for Valley to give specific names; Throbber?)

When I get home tonight I'll report back to the group what results I get, with samples.

(P.S. Deranger: Trilogy looks like a hefty download, I'll give it a try but first I'll try out some simpler tools.)

Thanks to everyone

[xanda123]

I'm doing a similar track at the mo using Trilogy and the grouped bassline and bassdrum + compression trick. By comping the bass and bd just right you get the sucking sound going and the whomp of the bass comes thru when the bd drops out. So in my experience it's more down to the compression than the synth (I've done similar in Reason with a subtractor too which isn't so heavy as Trilogy).

I've never tried this I always compressed them seperatly, I'm gonna try this to thanks for the tip.

[ew]

(P.S. Deranger: Trilogy looks like a hefty download, I'll give it a try but first I'll try out some simpler tools.)

No download-it's on four(or is it six?)CDs
ew

[kritikon]

[/quote]This is what I need
1) Claw VST
2) Bazzoid VST
3) Distortion FX (still waiting for Valley to give specific names; Throbber?)

It really isn't difficult to find decent free distortion plugins - do the FX search at the top right of the page.
To start you off though...try NastyShaper and Cyanide.

Oh bugger - my quotes won't go in the right place

[kybernaut]

So that I don't only speak about something in theory, I made you an eXXtra hardtt German beat

The bass ist just a simple 1 osc patch that I quickly built with Emagic's ES1, you could probably use any synth for that. Then I applied two insert plugins from the above mentioned guitar suite (Tube Screamer and Boss DS-1).

The drum samples are from the AKAI library 'Dance Drum Kits.' Further I use a reverb (Platinum Verb) and a master Compressor, both are built-in in Logic.

I'm not really into this type of music, just thought I give it a try.


Here you go:

http://huhd099.spymac.net/temp/hard_and_german.mp3

[xanda123]

I know you probably think this is ok but I really don't like this its sounds to processed. I know your all giving good imput but it has to be exactly the right sound or it doesn't sound right.