KVR Audio

Kompulsor · Post by **Kompulsor** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:21 am

What VSTs allow you to easily create hard German basses, like in the following samples:

http://www.kompulsor.com/test/sample1.mp3
http://www.kompulsor.com/test/sample2.mp3

Note that in Sample 1 it's slightly twisted, but both of these have "rich" and heavy offbeat bass.

I'm not very familiar with technical terms like LFO, attack, release, etc., so please try to make it simple for me

ideally I'd like suitable VSTs with good presets for this, but I'm ready to hear any other comments. thanks

xanda123 · Post by **xanda123** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:25 am

Alright mate

class basslines I'm in to this german hard trance style bassline, I'v found its really difficult to create this sound I haven't really found a vsti that does maybe they use hardware. I use samples for now if I want this type of bassline.

Ps I've been after the Scot project, Hennes and cold, cosmic gate basslines too but there really difficult to.

kybernaut · Post by **kybernaut** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:27 am

This is probably not mainly a question of the VSTi used, but more about programming that synth and then apply the proper processing. In these examples, a lot of fuzzy distortion is going on...

kybernaut

xander · Post by **xander** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:13 am

kybernaut wrote:This is probably not mainly a question of the VSTi used, but more about programming that synth and then apply the proper processing. In these examples, a lot of fuzzy distortion is going on...

kybernaut

I can do that on imposcar

Tried it?

kybernaut · Post by **kybernaut** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:39 am

Xander wrote:I can do that on imposcar Tried it?

No, but I believe you

xander · Post by **xander** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:34 am

kybernaut wrote:
Xander wrote:I can do that on imposcar Tried it?
No, but I believe you

Give it a try - you might like it:

Rip a new hole in the Cosmos with The impOSCar

and here's a little mp3 rip from impOSCar, with a fairly decent ripping bass...

80sGroove

annode · Post by **annode** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:05 am

The refx claw will do the trick.
A deticated vsti for just those sort of TB-303 sounds.

Made a sample.(you can get all variations of sounds like this)
http://home.comcast.net/~newdabranck/mu ... x_claw.mp3
Free dload!
http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/305.html
here`s an example of how you can do your sample1.
I got a sound,then I reversed the wave file in sony sound forge.If you were to make a sample wave of just one of these envelopes,then impot it into a sampler...you got it!
http://home.comcast.net/~newdabranck/mu ... _claw2.mp3
PS: I only spent a few mins on each of these...so I expect you can get better results with a little more tweeking!
I`m also manually using the modulation wheel on my keyboard controller to get the rising/falling effect.This can be writen as modulation automation in any host like cubase.

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:39 am

I can think of several ways of getting that type of bassline.

1 - As mentioned before.....get impOSCar - it's a doddle with filters that squelchy.

2 - A decent 2-osc synth with oscillator sync capabilities on it. The basic sound is probably a gated amp sound (i.e on a hardware synth you just set it to gate rather than env - on a VSTi if you don't have that option, then the amp envelope is just attack=0, D=full, S=full, R=0 (although you could have a little bit of release.) Then you put on a filter envelope with a reasonable attack, decay whatever suits, and not a full sustain. Moderate resonance but not anywhere near self-oscillating, cutoff up in the middle somewhere, and a heavy filter env amount value to get the squelch. If you can apply sync amount, then you apply the same envelope onto it.

3. VSTi's with not-so-good filters can be made to get that sound but you need FX. Overdrive or even true distortion - if you can, use a band-splittable distortion so that you don't overdistort the bass end too much. And/or you can use a saturation type FX or a valve drive type FX.
As for distortion plugins - just try many of them out, they all have different flavours - I like that old Big Tick one (can't remember the name). Or Cyanide is useful.
Any saturation/valve plugin from PSP is good for those FX - just run the saturation or valve high.

4. H/w overdrive. Even a shitty synth can be made to growl like that if you overdrive some h/w gear - some desks do it to good effect - I used to have an old Tascam that distorted beautifully even though the desk itself was very average.
I highly recommend overdriving the input on several analogue compressors. I have an old LA4C that overdrives like heaven - especially in half-band mode. Overdrive the input, then crank up the compression even up to limiting but the real secret is to have no release and little or no attack, and Bob (or Gunther in this case) is your uncle.

I've even had my Juno sounding like that through a comp (which shows its the comp that does it because Juno filters are useless for aggressive sounds generally)

Out of all those options by far the best 2 are good synths and overdriven analogue hardware.

annode · Post by **annode** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:29 am

That`s quite a bit of tech talk for Kompulsor kritikon.
Very interesting though.
Any chance you can demonstrate that for me as well,as in posting an audio example of that with imposcar?
Would love to hear that!

Thanx

kybernaut · Post by **kybernaut** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:25 pm

Another tip for these kinds of overdrive/distortion: Guitar stomp boxes! There is a *very* good freeware for this kind of stuff, be sure you check it out!!

http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

xanda123 · Post by **xanda123** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:38 pm

no offence annode and Xander but they are no where near, they have no umph to them when you got just a single note on the off beat it needs to rip right in to you ear.

If you've done it on imposcar can you save it and let us have it.

Kompulsor · Post by **Kompulsor** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:49 pm

Thanks for the replies so far, very interesting discussion. I'll listen to the samples when I get home.

xanda123 wrote:when you got just a single note on the off beat it needs to rip right in to you ear.

That's exactly what I need. By the way, this sound is not a 303 as far as I can tell. 303 is "acidic barks" I think, this is more like a saw (sorry if I'm wrong).

Any VST designers listening? Aleksey, etc.? Why not create a dedicated VST for hard German basses like that? You will have a lot of happy customers.

valley · Post by **valley** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:17 pm

Kompulsor wrote: That's exactly what I need. By the way, this sound is not a 303 as far as I can tell. 303 is "acidic barks" I think, this is more like a saw (sorry if I'm wrong).

The 303 offers both square and sawtooth waveforms. Typically though it is the saw that is most commonly associated with *that* acid sound.

The bass you are looking for is mostly a result of excessive distortion. You can get a good effect by using a sawtooth wave and applying a very hard distort (pretty much hard limiting) such that the tops of the sawtooth teeth are flattened.

You may need to layer two patches to get the strong controlled bass and the abrasive distorted edge nicely in balance. If you are layering, then more top end dirt can be added by adding a ring mod style patch.

For a more 'classic' euro bass you can always try a little bit of pitch mod such that the pitch of the sound falls over time. Couple this with corresponding filter cutoff sweep and set the envelopes so that the fall comes after a short period and then decays very quickly (basically as if you were programming a kick drum).

You should be able to get reasonable results with most vstis - I suspect, though I haven't tried it personally - that Bazzoid2[1] coupled with suitable compression distortion, would be able to produce good sounds.

[1] Cheers Jens.

Kompulsor · Post by **Kompulsor** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:27 pm

Thanks, Valley.

I'll give Bazzoid a try and let everyone know.

Any suggestions on what to use for the 'distortion' effect you mention?

Deranger604 · Post by **Deranger604** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:52 pm

I know alot of the german trance producers use the Waldorf XT/Pulse for their bass, as well as many other things.

Probably doesn't help, but may bring you a step closer to what you are looking for.

VST for Hard German Bass?