Legal questions for selling sample packs

[jancivil]

I explored 'public domain' drum samples when a friend wanted to do a massive Kontakt instrument based on vintage electronic drums and decided it wasn't worth the risk even for freebies. I can't imagine anyone trying what is being described as a business model. It is like asking if you can edit together parts of various commercial films to make your own film.

Actually I have done, audio all mine, but Fair Use is based on the extent of copying, ie., duration (not specified; mine the length of a pop single) and will it compete with the original (per Warner Group's release of claim).

If you're in business with it there's no way.

[jancivil]

Setting aside drum samples - some softsynths actually specify in their EULA that you're not allowed to use their synth to produce sounds for a commercial sample library.

For real? Which ones?

8. In case a sound library is part of the purchased Product the following shall apply in addition to the EULA (Sound License Agreement): The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement. The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects.

[jancivil]

That's Maschine's, exact same language. I don't read these because I'm never going to create a sound library with someone else's *sounds* for sale. It may extend to Form which is samples-based and provides samples, or even Absynth which does that. If so there is the argument 'but there's no way to tell'; no comment.
It seems clear that 'our proprietary sound library to your commercial sound library' is a no-go.

[sin night]

As far as I remember, also DCAM Synth Squad had a similar condition in the EULA, you couldn't use that software to make sounds libraries without FXPansion written authorization.


I think that making a derivative work from a sample library is a no-go, not just because of legal issues.

If I had a company, I wouldn't allow another company to make a derived/"competing" product out of mine. I could think of negoziating an agreement if I could see an advantage from a patnership, as for example selling my product to a different/bigger userbase or raising my brand awareness. And it should not cut into my sales. If it doesn't bring more money than what I'm currently making, why should I bother? I would stand strongly against any product based on mine (especially when law is on my side). I think this is pretty much standard.

And if I was thinking of making a new product derived from existing - maybe even competing - products, I would think twice before having to go through such agreements. I mean: say I manage to negoziate an agreement, how big is it going to be the share of the creators of the original products? How much expensive will be the final product? And these considerations are before considering the amount of work I would have to add (which can go from a simple repackaging of existing products to a major rework) in order to make "my" product.


Thinking of "just doing it and getting away with it" is a no-go in my opinion, it's not just risky for you as a seller but - even more important - it's not serious towards customers (because, as a customer, I would be using unlicensed samples without knowing it and this could expose me to problems, too).
The only thing to do is ask authorization to the copyright holders before doing anything... but I guess the answer will be a strong "no" or, in the best case, it will be a request of a huge share on the sales.

Is it worth bothering? I don't think so. I would rather make an original product and keep all the money for me (and also keep full control on the product, which is a nice thing).


Also, I think that so-called public domain resources can be risky and I would definitely avoid them for a commercial product.
Often something which is free and comes without a license is believed to be "public domain", but it isn't so. For example, the samples I recorded from my analog synths and shared on the web are not public domain (even if sometimes I didn't add any readme/license and somebody could mistakenly think they are). They are my samples and I just give them away for free (without asking any royalty) for music making, but not to create new sample libraries (I did give permission in very few situations, when I thought it was worth it, but as a general rule I won't allow it).
Please be aware that you may find similar (or worse) situations when dealing with so-called "public domain" resources.


Just my 2 cents, of course!

[Zombie Queen]

8. In case a sound library is part of the purchased Product the following shall apply in addition to the EULA (Sound License Agreement): The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement. The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects.

Makes sense when slapped on Kontakt. But then the same is found in Absynth 5; presets and samples are obvious, but a synthesizer itself, it's a bit of eyebrow riser. Well, used DX7 is not much more expensive than FM8 license.
I couldn't find EULA on older NI synths, FM7, Pro-53... Maybe it's embedded in the installer... I'm curious if this has always been there.

[jancivil]

Well, for Absynth the samples they provide, while one may never guess what is used, can be hard to replace when missing because the sound design can be so shaped by it. I ran into this today, I'm assuming it's an Absynth sample from say Absynth 2, I don't think I went out looking for something when I created the patch way back when.

[Guenon]

I read in the licence from loopmasters / Primeloops and all that, it just says you cannot sell the samples individually. Does not say anything about having them edited or unedited, just doesnt mention it anywhere.

No, this is incorrect. Read through the whole license. Point 5 in the Loopmasters license forbids this kind of use in no uncertain terms.

"This license expressly forbids resale, relicensing or other distribution of the Sounds, either as they exist or any modification thereof."

http://support.loopmasters.com/knowledg ... rs-license

[Jedinhopy]

I couldn't find EULA on older NI synths, FM7, Pro-53... Maybe it's embedded in the installer... I'm curious if this has always been there.

Is it the same for the old KOMPAKT + INTAKT ?

[Zombie Queen]

8. In case a sound library is part of the purchased Product the following shall apply in addition to the EULA (Sound License Agreement): The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement. The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects.

I read this again with fresh head and no fever. So this applies to 'sound library' part of the product (samples, presets, patches). It makes sense again.

[murnau]

So Im looking at putting together some sample packs and what not to build a lil business.

Id be making sample packs for various edm genres using synths like Serum, Diva, Massive, etc...

But for drums and what not and other samples id be using other samples FROM existing sample packs I bought. I would edit them to sound different. Like for instance id layer multiple kicks and EQ them and what not. Same for any other drum sounds.

For pads / bass sounds, just chop and throw eq's and other FX at them.

Would this be legal to use those samples in that way?.. I read in the licence from loopmasters / Primeloops and all that, it just says you cannot sell the samples individually. Does not say anything about having them edited or unedited, just doesnt mention it anywhere.

Hoping I can get a clear answer, golden rule is to CYA.

That is what actually 99% of EDM producers do!

[jancivil]

8. In case a sound library is part of the purchased Product the following shall apply in addition to the EULA (Sound License Agreement): The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement. The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects.

I read this again with fresh head and no fever. So this applies to 'sound library' part of the product (samples, presets, patches). It makes sense again.

Selling Absynth patches is no problem and I believe they may contain samples from their folders.

I have uploaded patches containing their samples to NI User Library but downloading them now means at least one missing sample. I don't remember if I uploaded the samples but I think I did. But while the Absynth UL still stands, it's locked to edits. So I don't think it matters in selling your own patches the more I think on it.

[jancivil]

So Im looking at putting together some sample packs and what not to build a lil business.

Id be making sample packs for various edm genres using synths like Serum, Diva, Massive, etc...

But for drums and what not and other samples id be using other samples FROM existing sample packs I bought. I would edit them to sound different. Like for instance id layer multiple kicks and EQ them and what not. Same for any other drum sounds.

For pads / bass sounds, just chop and throw eq's and other FX at them.

Would this be legal to use those samples in that way?.. I read in the licence from loopmasters / Primeloops and all that, it just says you cannot sell the samples individually. Does not say anything about having them edited or unedited, just doesnt mention it anywhere.

Hoping I can get a clear answer, golden rule is to CYA.

That is what actually 99% of EDM producers do!

Steal but make sure their ass is covered?

[murnau]

Steal but make sure their ass is covered?

Not much effort to cover their ass because nobody can recognice a certain drum sample when it's heavily processed, stacked, equalized etc. you name it. I go even further and say that even if you leave a drum sample unchanged (in a track at least) nobody can prove that you didn't sample it by yourself.

[sonicpowa]

Would this be legal to use those samples in that way?.. I read in the licence from loopmasters / Primeloops and all that, it just says you cannot sell the samples individually. Does not say anything about having them edited or unedited, just doesnt mention it anywhere.

Hoping I can get a clear answer, golden rule is to CYA.

"you cannot sell the samples individually". I´m sure it means that you can´t sell them individually - combined/edited or not. Basically they don´t want a competing product made of their own samples. But maybe there´s a chance to do cooperation with them by written permission. Of course it´s not as profitable as stealing from them, but you can have peace of mind that no one can take you to court.

[Jedinhopy]

Not much effort to cover their ass because nobody can recognice a certain drum sample when it's heavily processed, stacked, equalized etc. you name it.

(Artificial Intelligence) maybe will be used in the future to recognize stolen samples in sample packs.