Legal questions for selling sample packs

[Oneyejoe]

So Im looking at putting together some sample packs and what not to build a lil business.

Id be making sample packs for various edm genres using synths like Serum, Diva, Massive, etc...

But for drums and what not and other samples id be using other samples FROM existing sample packs I bought. I would edit them to sound different. Like for instance id layer multiple kicks and EQ them and what not. Same for any other drum sounds.

For pads / bass sounds, just chop and throw eq's and other FX at them.

Would this be legal to use those samples in that way?.. I read in the licence from loopmasters / Primeloops and all that, it just says you cannot sell the samples individually. Does not say anything about having them edited or unedited, just doesnt mention it anywhere.

Hoping I can get a clear answer, golden rule is to CYA.

[DocAtlas]

You might want to contact the owners of the material you want to layer and process for clarification. My guess is that they won't be ok with it, but you won't know unless you ask.

[thecontrolcentre]

I believe that selling other peoples samples or derivative reworks is not legal without permission. Its best to make or record your own.

[Distorted Horizon]

Though vengeange got away with some "borrowing"

[deastman]

Whether Vengeance or anyone else got away with it is irrelevant. According to the terms of just about every sample pack ever created, you cannot use those to make your own sample packs and distribute them, commercially or free. It doesn't matter how much you layer or transform them. It doesn't matter if they are recognizable or not. You aren't allowed to do it. Again, you might very well get away with it, but that wasn't the question.

[zircon]

Totally illegal without the explicit permission of the creators of the samples...

[SampleScience]

Totally illegal without the explicit permission of the creators of the samples...

Exact, it's 100% illegal.

[thecontrolcentre]

Its really dodgy sampling some drum machines and synths too if they are sample based. I recently sampled a Roland R5 but I have no plans to sell or redistribute the samples. Its for my own use only coz I don't want Roland sueing me for copyright infringement.

[chk071]

Though vengeange got away with some "borrowing"

Actually, whole music genres got away with it. But, as deastman wrote, that's not the point here. I also wonder what the point of creating own sounds would be, when you just alter and use presets. I could understand it when you used samples in the sound demos, and that should be perfectly fine too. But, why use any sounds or presets for your own sounds? That doesn't make much sense.

[ghettosynth]

Its really dodgy sampling some drum machines and synths too if they are sample based. I recently sampled a Roland R5 but I have no plans to sell or redistribute the samples. Its for my own use only coz I don't want Roland sueing me for copyright infringement.

Yes, but, and it's not the kind of but that I'd want to build a business on, there are more than a few sample based instruments, in particular, drum machines from the 80s whose samples are no longer protected or never were in the first place. The law changed in, IIRC, 1989. The only point that I'm making here is that not ALL samples based instruments are identically protected and it may, in fact, be ok to sample some without permission. You'd be a fool to do so without specific information. However, that is a factual state of the situation, I'm not advocating anything. Seek legal advice from competent council, this is not that.

There are large sample libraries of old drum machines on the net that are claimed to be in the "public domain." That is almost certainly a false statement with respect to the entire collection, however, I suspect that more than a few of the samples actually are.

Also, for a long period of time Korg had an explicit license to the effect of it was ok to use their samples in your own so long as you made substantial changes to them. Don't quote me on that exactly, this was from a number of years back and I don't recall the specific products.

Again, the only point here is that you need permission. Asking directly is one way to get that, an explicit license is another, samples in the public domain yet another. I feel that it is both important to respect copyright, and important to exercise copyright. So, if you have a valid license, e.g., you can find a statement as I've described above in your Korg instrument manual, and you have the advice of a competent attorney, then by all means, full steam ahead!

However, I can think of almost no contemporary sample library that grants this sort of permission.

[jancivil]

golden rule is to CYA.

that's not what that means.
do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I also wonder what the point of creating own sounds would be, when you just alter and use presets

$$

if they are sample based

CYA will be to make sure they aren't protected samples. If the company is still in business, probably quite illegal.

Ethics indicates don't do it.

[bigcat1969]

I explored 'public domain' drum samples when a friend wanted to do a massive Kontakt instrument based on vintage electronic drums and decided it wasn't worth the risk even for freebies. I can't imagine anyone trying what is being described as a business model. It is like asking if you can edit together parts of various commercial films to make your own film. Look I made a sci fi film by editing Star Trek TOS, Star Trek NG, Battlestar Galactic and Star Wars Original trilogy footage and now I'm going to sell it!

[ghettosynth]

I explored 'public domain' drum samples when a friend wanted to do a massive Kontakt instrument based on vintage electronic drums and decided it wasn't worth the risk even for freebies. I can't imagine anyone trying what is being described as a business model. It is like asking if you can edit together parts of various commercial films to make your own film. Look I made a sci fi film by editing Star Trek TOS, Star Trek NG, Battlestar Galactic and Star Wars Original trilogy footage and now I'm going to sell it!

I think your analogy is off. There's little doubt that those things are not subject to appropriate copyright protections. Sample roms are a slightly different animal. See the recent MT-32 Rom/game emulator case for an example of what I'm talking about. The requirements for copyright protection were different in the 80s and it may be that some of those ROMS are effectively actually in the public domain.

I wouldn't build a business model off of it either, however, if I had specific information, I wouldn't be paranoid about it.

[andrelafosse]

Setting aside drum samples - some softsynths actually specify in their EULA that you're not allowed to use their synth to produce sounds for a commercial sample library.

(This could conceivably be a tricky thing to track down, prove, etc., but...)

[Zombie Queen]

Setting aside drum samples - some softsynths actually specify in their EULA that you're not allowed to use their synth to produce sounds for a commercial sample library.

For real? Which ones?