Sounds to me like freeform EQ matching a fletcher curve. But obviously only in the frequency region that is boosted. Also it sounds like there will be some AGC and maybe some transient/dynamic protection. Vojtech is working on a new module for MXXX that will allow us to two lanes channels that automatically minus the part of the signal that is added to the other. When that is here we will be able to make this easily using freeform eq and a spectral crossover.pumafred wrote:And now he said "maximise the information received by your brain from the audio signal", and "enhance the audiblity of perceptual elements within your mix".jmg8 wrote:Just a guess really. But in the description it mentions a few times "auditory perception".
You may be on the right track, Sherlock!
Here I go again: Melda vs. Sonible, Oeksund Soothe, Gullfoss?
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- KVRAF
- 2690 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
Jason @ Melda Production
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- KVRian
- 1094 posts since 23 Sep, 2006
Oh, I extracted it from meldas psycho acoustic filter. I'll try to find it
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- KVRian
- 1094 posts since 23 Sep, 2006
Found the post, it contains explanation of how to create it yourself if the presets don't work for you:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &p=6623117
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &p=6623117
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 509 posts since 28 Oct, 2012 from Argentina
Thank you very much, jmg8 and vectorwarrior!
Nerd that I am, I am still trying to figure out the differences, and relative desirability, of referencing tracks and/or mixes, however loosely, to "Fletcher" or to pink noise. (BTW, in the process I learnt that "Fletcher" would be grey noise, but I could not find any generators, nor even wav files. Of course these curves vary according to volume levels, but I would be fine with, say, the one for 85db, the level often recommended for monitoring purposes.)
PS: vectorwarrior, what is "meldas psycho acoustic filter"?
Nerd that I am, I am still trying to figure out the differences, and relative desirability, of referencing tracks and/or mixes, however loosely, to "Fletcher" or to pink noise. (BTW, in the process I learnt that "Fletcher" would be grey noise, but I could not find any generators, nor even wav files. Of course these curves vary according to volume levels, but I would be fine with, say, the one for 85db, the level often recommended for monitoring purposes.)
PS: vectorwarrior, what is "meldas psycho acoustic filter"?
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- KVRian
- 1094 posts since 23 Sep, 2006
It's an option in some of the processes, such as compressors, that is supposed to simulate how the human ear hears and what frequencies we are and aren't sensitive to. I don't know how good a model it is though.
Click on the advanced settings of any of the dynamic detectors and you'll see an option for it. I was just able to extract out the frequency curve.
Click on the advanced settings of any of the dynamic detectors and you'll see an option for it. I was just able to extract out the frequency curve.
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- KVRAF
- 2814 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia
Gullfoss has quickly become one of my favorite plugins. It has surprisingly little impact on the dynamics. Hardly any, actually. Well, unless you overdo it.Soundtheory1 wrote:I'm really reluctant to jump into a Melda forum, so tell me to get lost if you will! Just to say - Gullfoss is not a dynamic equalizer. We try very hard to preserve the dynamics - there's a form of loudness conservation in what it does. Part of what Gullfoss can do is to egde the frequency distribution towards an idealised form that helps to maximise the information received by your brain from the audio signal. (Sorry if that sounds cookie, but it is literally what we try to do!) A somewhat cruder way of doing this is to try and 'pink' your signal - and you can use techniques similar to the one you mentioned. Eddie Bazil has a really nice article about this in Sound on Sound a few months back. But beneath the hood Gullfoss is doing a lot more - and the overall aim is to enhance the audiblity of perceptual elements within your mix....It looks as though that Gullfoss is just providing dynamic equalization based on some pre-defined target curve(s). That's easily done with MSpectralDynamics:
David
Soundtheory
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 29 Oct, 2016
Whoa, whoa. What’s everyone doing here???
I’m all for experimentation but balancing a mix to Fletcher-Munson curves sounds like an objectively bad idea. Balancing to pink noise sounds like a less bad idea but be aware if you’re mixing anything other than modern pop you’ll end up with overly bright mixes. You might get decent results if you limit yourself to the area between 100Hz and 3k or so but in most genres you’ll end up with too much deep bass and waaaay too much top end (especially above 10k where even most high-energy pop songs roll off a lot more steeply than 3dB/octave).
Take a look at the curves presented here for a handful of different genres:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/ ... ical-style
None of them follow a strict 3dB/octave (pink noise) slope and they definitely don’t look like Fletcher-Munson curves. If equal loudness curves or "psycho-acoustic pre-filter" curves (I think Vojtech’s is just a rolled off low end with a high shelf but it’s been a while since I checked) were some kind of ideal to shoot for in mixing and mastering then you’d find songs that follow these curves. But you don’t. Frankly if you mixed a song to a Fletcher-Munson curve I think it'd make your ears bleed.
As I said, experiment away, but I think you guys are going down a bit of a dead end.
I’m all for experimentation but balancing a mix to Fletcher-Munson curves sounds like an objectively bad idea. Balancing to pink noise sounds like a less bad idea but be aware if you’re mixing anything other than modern pop you’ll end up with overly bright mixes. You might get decent results if you limit yourself to the area between 100Hz and 3k or so but in most genres you’ll end up with too much deep bass and waaaay too much top end (especially above 10k where even most high-energy pop songs roll off a lot more steeply than 3dB/octave).
Take a look at the curves presented here for a handful of different genres:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/ ... ical-style
None of them follow a strict 3dB/octave (pink noise) slope and they definitely don’t look like Fletcher-Munson curves. If equal loudness curves or "psycho-acoustic pre-filter" curves (I think Vojtech’s is just a rolled off low end with a high shelf but it’s been a while since I checked) were some kind of ideal to shoot for in mixing and mastering then you’d find songs that follow these curves. But you don’t. Frankly if you mixed a song to a Fletcher-Munson curve I think it'd make your ears bleed.
As I said, experiment away, but I think you guys are going down a bit of a dead end.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 29 Oct, 2016
I was using “dynamic” in a looser sense to mean “not static”. I know the aim of Gullfoss isn't to alter dynamics but spectral balance and the settings I recommended for MSpectral were meant to do the same.Soundtheory1 wrote:Gullfoss is not a dynamic equalizer.
That being said, on your own website, under "FAQ/What is Gullfoss?" here are the first 5 words:
"Gullfoss is a dynamic equalizer..."
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- KVRAF
- 2690 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
You have missed the point a little. We are not trying to match the whole signal to a fletcher curve but rather just the boosted area of the eq band.
So let's say that you want to boost by 6db at 2000hz with a wide band (just to make the example easier) that ranges from 1000hz to 4000hz. If the source material already has frequencies around 1500hz that match the fletcher curve, it will not boost them. If there are frequencies at 2000hz that are not close to the target curve that it would boost these the full 6db.
So let's say that you want to boost by 6db at 2000hz with a wide band (just to make the example easier) that ranges from 1000hz to 4000hz. If the source material already has frequencies around 1500hz that match the fletcher curve, it will not boost them. If there are frequencies at 2000hz that are not close to the target curve that it would boost these the full 6db.
Jason @ Melda Production
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 29 Oct, 2016
I think I understand what you’re saying jmg8 but I don’t see why you’d want the boost to form to a *Fletcher-Munson* curve. Surely you’d want it to form to an *ideal* curve (whatever that might be).
Just to take things to a logical extreme: If I boosted everywhere along the spectrum what I’d end up doing is, in essence, just boosting the overall gain of the track. But if you boosted the overall gain enough into an automatic equalizer shaping the signal to a Fletcher-Munson curve your whole mix would take on that shape. Which isn’t what you want. It wouldn’t sound good. What you’d want instead is for the automatic equalizer to shape the mix into the sound of a well-balanced mix which would be a lot closer to pink noise (though as I mentioned before even pink noise isn’t ideal) than to a Fletcher-Munson curve. And just as you wouldn’t want the whole mix to form to F-M, you surely wouldn't want parts of the mix (individual boosts) to form to it.
Just to take things to a logical extreme: If I boosted everywhere along the spectrum what I’d end up doing is, in essence, just boosting the overall gain of the track. But if you boosted the overall gain enough into an automatic equalizer shaping the signal to a Fletcher-Munson curve your whole mix would take on that shape. Which isn’t what you want. It wouldn’t sound good. What you’d want instead is for the automatic equalizer to shape the mix into the sound of a well-balanced mix which would be a lot closer to pink noise (though as I mentioned before even pink noise isn’t ideal) than to a Fletcher-Munson curve. And just as you wouldn’t want the whole mix to form to F-M, you surely wouldn't want parts of the mix (individual boosts) to form to it.
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 31 Dec, 2017
You're right, Bullfrog..... Embarrassing. We'll need to change that! And yes, it's dynamic in the non-conventional sense of changing 100-200 times a sec.That being said, on your own website...
GF certainly doesn't sit there trying to recreate some ideal curve - quite different to that.
Will start a Soundtheory/Gullfoss forum very soon, so that I can stop invading, and you can ask questions of our technical team if ever interested....
