No licensing details with 'All The Breaks' cd

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SampleScience wrote:Using these breaks is technically illegal and people are being sued. I've once read about a label re-issuing old funk, rock and soul music on vinyl and they had a department dedicated to suing illegal sampling of their newly acquired intellectual properties. I wish I remember their name, but I remember it was part of their business model. I suggest that you do your own research, it's what I did years ago and concluded it wasn't worth the risk, even for a small artist.

The reason some companies sells these breaks compilation is because there's a demand for it. They could have a special license to sell them as a compilation for listening purpose, they certainly don't for licensing them to other musicians.
It certainly seems to be dodgy shit that a few people are getting away with.

The record shop that I bought it from replied to me that I would have to speak to the record label regarding any licensing info. I'd already done some digging, but really couldn't find anything definite. None of the places that sold it would show the track titles, and I eventually found a place that explicitly stated that the record label prohibited them from giving the track names (Reading the track list that accompanies the product is what first made me really suspicious). Either way, I couldn't find any details via internet searches about the record label, whose only mention on the cover of the cd reads, 'All The Breaks LLC / Made in Dubai / 2017' :scared:

So I asked Juno Records for the record label's contact details, and was told they are not allowed to give out that information :roll: At which point, I requested a refund. The refund was granted without a single question, nor hesitation. I get the feeling that they know it's dodgy, and just weren't used to anyone bothering to ask.

This is clearly some kind of bootleg being illegally sold. I wonder how many of those that bought it assumed that the fact they it seems to come from a supposedly legit source means that they can just use it :scared:

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To be fair, Juno Records have always struck me as a decent music company when I've had dealings with them.
But yeah, this is dodgy for sure. Also, I expect that you're not the first to raise the licensing issue with them, and they just refund to avoid any issues.

(By the by, on account of this thread, I just had to double check out a Zero G software library named Planet of the Breaks which I bought yonks ago for Reason.
https://zero-g.co.uk/products/planet-of ... aks-series
Luckily that one is entirely legal and you are able to use any way you wish, according to the fine print pdf which is in the folder accompanying the Refill).


On a different note, in terms of using such samples within our music, tbh I'm surprised that just taking such 'raw' recordings (with all their reverb, cross feed and other recording issues) and leaving them sonically unaltered, though possibly cut and mixed around into a different rhythm, is done so much particularly given the resources we now have as creative software musicians that we didn't have even 15 years ago.
I suppose it comes down to different tastes: although I wouldn't be against buying such a 'live sounding' sample library, I've always preferred to either feed such well known grooves into Melodyne to get the rhythm but avoid the sound of the live record (and thereby probably avoid being traced and sued) and then use this in a drum software package live Addictive Drums and then add my own live effects and reverb to simulate the 'live recording'.
Alternatively I sometimes buy excellent and exceedingly cheap midi versions of well known grooves which I can then load into a midi instrument/software sampler etc and then add in some vintage sounding reverb etc afterwards.
For example, midi grooves by Groove Monkee or here:
https://www.beatzandbreakz.com/classic- ... -drum-pack

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dark water wrote:I suppose it comes down to different tastes: although I wouldn't be against buying such a 'live sounding' sample library, I've always preferred to either feed such well known grooves into Melodyne to get the rhythm but avoid the sound of the live record (and thereby probably avoid being traced and sued) and then use this in a drum software package live Addictive Drums and then add my own live effects and reverb to simulate the 'live recording'.
This is the right approach. For someone who has Live 9, you can do the same thing by extracting the MIDI drums from a sampled break and use any drum packages to play it back. My free SampleScience Player will play the MIDI drum correctly as well as other free drum plugins like MT Power Drum Kit, BigCat Musyng Kite Standard Drums, Chokehold Sean Pandy Drums, etc.

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dark water wrote:tbh I'm surprised that just taking such 'raw' recordings (with all their reverb, cross feed and other recording issues) and leaving them sonically unaltered, though possibly cut and mixed around into a different rhythm,
I personally like the sound of those old dusty breaks.... Especially, if I want to make old-school Dark 90's DnB.

I guess it depends what sound you are after.
I will take the Lord's name in vain, whenever I want. Hail Satan! And his little goblins too. :lol:

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dark water wrote:Also, I expect that you're not the first to raise the licensing issue with them, and they just refund to avoid any issues.
Indeed! No questions asked :scared:
dark water wrote:(By the by, on account of this thread, I just had to double check out a Zero G software library named Planet of the Breaks which I bought yonks ago for Reason.
https://zero-g.co.uk/products/planet-of ... aks-series
Luckily that one is entirely legal and you are able to use any way you wish, according to the fine print pdf which is in the folder accompanying the Refill).
Brian Trifon (Trifonic) mentioned that he has plundered/crate-dug that series, in a video I saw. I'd happily buy anything on his recommendation, but I guess I never got around to it. It definitely seems to have a good range of styles, but maybe not too much of the those straight, dirty, old 'real' breaks.

And, yes, it clearly has all the correct licensing in place :tu:


dark water wrote:On a different note, in terms of using such samples within our music, tbh I'm surprised that just taking such 'raw' recordings (with all their reverb, cross feed and other recording issues) and leaving them sonically unaltered, though possibly cut and mixed around into a different rhythm, is done so much particularly given the resources we now have as creative software musicians that we didn't have even 15 years ago.
I suppose it comes down to different tastes: although I wouldn't be against buying such a 'live sounding' sample library, I've always preferred to either feed such well known grooves into Melodyne to get the rhythm but avoid the sound of the live record (and thereby probably avoid being traced and sued) and then use this in a drum software package live Addictive Drums and then add my own live effects and reverb to simulate the 'live recording'.
Alternatively I sometimes buy excellent and exceedingly cheap midi versions of well known grooves which I can then load into a midi instrument/software sampler etc and then add in some vintage sounding reverb etc afterwards.
For example, midi grooves by Groove Monkee or here:
https://www.beatzandbreakz.com/classic- ... -drum-pack
There were a few ideas I had for the samples. I definitely wanted to cut the breaks into hits for processing, destroying, or just making kits from the clean sounds. I also wanted to just have a load of great breaks to study, and ape the sounds, dynamics, grooves etc (I can still do this, just by listening to all of the tracks that are playable from the webpage. Lastly, I did actually want to use sections of the breaks, or the breaks in their entirety, for experimenting with some kind of Hip-Hop fusion tracks. I just wanted to feed some of the best grooves into Geist 2 and just see what I could get it to spit out :tu:

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SampleScience wrote:
dark water wrote:I suppose it comes down to different tastes: although I wouldn't be against buying such a 'live sounding' sample library, I've always preferred to either feed such well known grooves into Melodyne to get the rhythm but avoid the sound of the live record (and thereby probably avoid being traced and sued) and then use this in a drum software package live Addictive Drums and then add my own live effects and reverb to simulate the 'live recording'.
This is the right approach. For someone who has Live 9, you can do the same thing by extracting the MIDI drums from a sampled break and use any drum packages to play it back. My free SampleScience Player will play the MIDI drum correctly as well as other free drum plugins like MT Power Drum Kit, BigCat Musyng Kite Standard Drums, Chokehold Sean Pandy Drums, etc.
It is definitely one way of doing things. However, I've always tended to get by making my own stuff. This is the first sample cd I have bought in all my years doing this, and it was really for THAT sound.

I do like the idea of extracting the grooves, even if only for analysis purposes (I don't really need to have the exact groove, but would like to get an idea of what makes these breaks groove without becoming just a sloppy mess)

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Robmobius wrote:
dark water wrote:tbh I'm surprised that just taking such 'raw' recordings (with all their reverb, cross feed and other recording issues) and leaving them sonically unaltered, though possibly cut and mixed around into a different rhythm,
I personally like the sound of those old dusty breaks.... Especially, if I want to make old-school Dark 90's DnB.

I guess it depends what sound you are after.
^ ^ This :tu:

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If you just want to study the breaks, there's a nice breakbeats collection on Rhythm Lab's website:

http://rhythm-lab.com/breakbeats/

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you could actually turn this into fun.

load up that dodgy break, match up the pattern using a mono dry 70s or 60s (for more raw) kit.

then use an FX chain to dirty it up. bingo you have replayed the break, it sounds better and it's legal.

8)

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topaz wrote:you could actually turn this into fun.

load up that dodgy break, match up the pattern using a mono dry 70s or 60s (for more raw) kit.

then use an FX chain to dirty it up. bingo you have replayed the break, it sounds better and it's legal.

8)
That was pretty much one of the intentions, except that I don't need to match the patterns exactly. I want to analyse the grooves to see where the line is drawn between 'human' and groovy, and just plain sloppy and badly played. The line sways back and forth, but still 'sits'. It's pretty much the antithesis of how I usually have my drum parts, but it's time to let go...maybe...a little :scared:

So far, I have been experimenting with the NI kits that I have (50's, 60's, 70's, vintage etc), and lashes of spring 'verb.

It is definitely fun. I'll share some results when I have something I think sounds close :tu:

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SampleScience wrote:If you just want to study the breaks, there's a nice breakbeats collection on Rhythm Lab's website:

http://rhythm-lab.com/breakbeats/
Thanks! That's another good resource :tu:

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