How do you feel about Reasontalk?

[pekbro]

Heh, well I like to try to exercise a little decorum and not be an asshole right off the bat.
Of course, it doesn't really work much of the time. Anyway, If you choose to do otherwise, thats your
prerogative.

[aallvor]

I love Reasontalk. It's great.

+1

[chk071]

where's goldylocks when we need her? Over modding, not modding, damned if we do and damned if we dont...tis the nature of the beast

Not easy at all to find the right balance, i guess. FWIW, i don't have an issue with the kind of modding here, it's just that some threads really go haywire before a mod steps in, which, i guess, is rather a matter of the amount of people modding, than the actual modding.

Anyway, i mostly agree with what EnGee wrote. Reasontalk has quite a friendly, familiar atmosphere. I guess they're just more strict in retaining it.

Friendliness isn't what Reasontalk tries to maintain: there's plenty of jackoffs and trolls that can be as rude as they like as long as they're bashing the people being critical about Propellerhead.

Kenni doesn't like people who criticize Propellerhead, especially from those who are able to be constructive, compelling, and intelligent about it.

I've decided Reasontalk isn't worth my time. I've provided a ton of help to the users, plenty of solid suggestions for Propellerhead, and if Kenni allows his personal crusade and thin skin ruin his personal judgement of what a constructive forum should constitute, Reasontalk will simply continue to isolate Propellerhead from their users, and will be left with a handful of fanboys with permanent brown noses.

No offense, but, i think that is a very subjective view. I'm not even very pro Reason, in fact i quite dislike the way it has evolved since, like, version 5 or so, but, when i take a look at Reasontalk, they don't throw you out immediately when you criticize things about Reason. When you get banned, you tend to feel like people have conspired against you, or, when you actually hit a wound point (like the gazllions of "The Reason sound sucks" topics), of course, mods or admins are quicker to set an end to this.

Again, though, Kenni can ban you if your nose doesn't fit you. He pays the bills, he runs the site. Always keep that in mind, in any forum. I don't think he actually did ban you because he disliked your nose though. But, of course there's a bit divergence between how mods act on this or that site. Also, so far, we only know the way you described the whole thing from your point. Again, no offense, but, in my experience, there's always two sides, and i don't know what happened before, or the store in its whole.

[titotheindigo]

The original Reason forum was great. I had a lot of fun there. When the Props closed it, I completely left Reason alone. I have an account at Reasontalk, but that was never the same feel as the Props forum. I haven't used or updated Reason since version 8.

Just bought an update i thought was the full version looking to sell your old license?

[kb420]

The original Reason forum was great. I had a lot of fun there. When the Props closed it, I completely left Reason alone. I have an account at Reasontalk, but that was never the same feel as the Props forum. I haven't used or updated Reason since version 8.

Just bought an update i thought was the full version looking to sell your old license?

Actually, since this thread was started, I've been looking at Reason again. The new 10.1 update doesn't seem all that bad, especially when you add in everything that I would be gaining coming from 8. Players, vst support, new library, new instruments. The jump from 8 to 10.1 is worth the investment. I don't think I'll be selling my license.

[Psuper]

Anyone can go look at my posts and see, so there's no "2nd side" of any coin, its plain as day. There's no hidden private messages or warnings etc. Kenni is the only immature and spiteful mod that I've encountered, and unfortunately he represents one of the major online presences of Propellerhead. The other mods I had discussions with were seasoned and respectable, we didn't often agree but it was never contentious, always considerate.

I simply have a good idea of what Propellerhead needs to do, present it well, and have to creatively stay afloat among the Reasontalk daggers coming from all sides for not only criticizing Propellerhead, but making a ton of sense. In fact the Kenni Crusade came to a head when I created their most popular thread of all time here:

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &t=7505759

It may be TLDR, but its the culmination of my opinion and gathered facts on the matter with regards to Propellerhead Reason, and my signature thread is the TLDR version.

And KB420 - 8 was a bust, and 9/9.5 was one of the best updates and well worth it - yes coming from 8 you'll very much enjoy the upgrade. I'm waiting to see if 10.1+ brings anything useful to me. I have a pile of cash going to either Propellerhead and the RE devs, or VSTS -- waiting to see what direction Propellerhead takes.

[chk071]

Again, though, i'd just move on. Nothing to be won or lost by taking the dirty laundry out.

[kb420]

10.1 from 8 definitely seems worth it. One of my biggest complaints about reason is the fact that you can not increase the font size in any way. My eyes are going. I'm getting old. It would be nice to scale the fonts some kind of way.

[Psuper]

I agree, just normal conversation at this point -- my last post cleared up any muddy waters, with a link for anyone who was interested in my opinion regarding Propellerheads strategy.

[chk071]

Fair enough.

I disagree about the point you made in the linked thread about the "hammering" from the user base to get useful Reason features, BTW. I think the hammering led to a complete mish mash, of what was once a clear and unique concept. For me, Reason is what it is now, because of propositions from people who have no idea about what the concept was really all about. Reason was never an open system for me. Look what happens now, it has to compete with other VST hosts, which are light years ahead in terms of implementation, and features. And they also kill off their own established plugin format. VST support is surely the absolute nemesis of what Nathorst-Bös and the other guys once intended with the DAW. Frankly, though, i'm not even sure if such a concept is even viable nowadays. Maybe they should start over again, with a new DAW, with a new name. Because they had a lot of innovative power, back in the days. Nowadays, they just have to serve people who realized that the island system Reason, which was never intdned to be anything else than a closed system, has many disadvantages, compared to an open system. What i could imagine is that they do something like Bitwig, but, with even a more modular approach. I couldn't even tell what Reason is supposed to be now. It's neither a do it all in one DAW, neither is it a DAW which gives you everything you need out of the box, neither is it a fully featured VST host. It's a bit of a mess, IMO.

[kb420]

Nowadays, they just have to serve people who realized that the island system Reason, which was never intdned to be anything else than a closed system, has many disadvantages, compared to an open system. What i could imagine is that they do something like Bitwig, but, with even a more modular approach. I couldn't even tell what Reason is supposed to be now. It's neither a do it all in one DAW, neither is it a DAW which gives you everything you need out of the box, neither is it a fully featured VST host. It's a bit of a mess, IMO.

Very good points. I agree, although, I don't think they really had a choice. There was no way that Reason could continue to be competitive with open hosts. VST's have become so powerful now that a closed system, even one with a new proprietary open format, couldn't compete with a truly open host. I actually think that RE's may have hurt more than they helped. I think they should have skipped RE's, and went straight for VST support. I never bought one RE, because I never wanted anything that I couldn't open directly in Maschine, Live, or Cubase. I think that Propellerhead needs to make Reason more appealing and competitive as a DAW now. That's their future.

[gas pump]

where's goldylocks when we need her? Over modding, not modding, damned if we do and damned if we dont...tis the nature of the beast

Not easy at all to find the right balance, i guess. FWIW, i don't have an issue with the kind of modding here, it's just that some threads really go haywire before a mod steps in, which, i guess, is rather a matter of the amount of people modding, than the actual modding.

Anyway, i mostly agree with what EnGee wrote. Reasontalk has quite a friendly, familiar atmosphere. I guess they're just more strict in retaining it.

Friendliness isn't what Reasontalk tries to maintain: there's plenty of jackoffs and trolls that can be as rude as they like as long as they're bashing the people being critical about Propellerhead.

Kenni doesn't like people who criticize Propellerhead, especially from those who are able to be constructive, compelling, and intelligent about it.

I've decided Reasontalk isn't worth my time. I've provided a ton of help to the users, plenty of solid suggestions for Propellerhead, and if Kenni allows his personal crusade and thin skin ruin his personal judgement of what a constructive forum should constitute, Reasontalk will simply continue to isolate Propellerhead from their users, and will be left with a handful of fanboys with permanent brown noses.

No offense, but, i think that is a very subjective view. I'm not even very pro Reason, in fact i quite dislike the way it has evolved since, like, version 5 or so, but, when i take a look at Reasontalk, they don't throw you out immediately when you criticize things about Reason. When you get banned, you tend to feel like people have conspired against you, or, when you actually hit a wound point (like the gazllions of "The Reason sound sucks" topics), of course, mods or admins are quicker to set an end to this.

Again, though, Kenni can ban you if your nose doesn't fit you. He pays the bills, he runs the site. Always keep that in mind, in any forum. I don't think he actually did ban you because he disliked your nose though. But, of course there's a bit divergence between how mods act on this or that site. Also, so far, we only know the way you described the whole thing from your point. Again, no offense, but, in my experience, there's always two sides, and i don't know what happened before, or the store in its whole.

Controlling the narrative is never a good thing, especially when the marketing department is involved.

Same rules apply to everything in life... the problem isn't peoples' opinions, it's how people react to them.

[tincture]

where's goldylocks when we need her? Over modding, not modding, damned if we do and damned if we dont...tis the nature of the beast

Not easy at all to find the right balance, i guess. FWIW, i don't have an issue with the kind of modding here, it's just that some threads really go haywire before a mod steps in, which, i guess, is rather a matter of the amount of people modding, than the actual modding.

Anyway, i mostly agree with what EnGee wrote. Reasontalk has quite a friendly, familiar atmosphere. I guess they're just more strict in retaining it.

Friendliness isn't what Reasontalk tries to maintain: there's plenty of jackoffs and trolls that can be as rude as they like as long as they're bashing the people being critical about Propellerhead.

Kenni doesn't like people who criticize Propellerhead, especially from those who are able to be constructive, compelling, and intelligent about it.

I've decided Reasontalk isn't worth my time. I've provided a ton of help to the users, plenty of solid suggestions for Propellerhead, and if Kenni allows his personal crusade and thin skin ruin his personal judgement of what a constructive forum should constitute, Reasontalk will simply continue to isolate Propellerhead from their users, and will be left with a handful of fanboys with permanent brown noses.

No offense, but, i think that is a very subjective view. I'm not even very pro Reason, in fact i quite dislike the way it has evolved since, like, version 5 or so, but, when i take a look at Reasontalk, they don't throw you out immediately when you criticize things about Reason. When you get banned, you tend to feel like people have conspired against you, or, when you actually hit a wound point (like the gazllions of "The Reason sound sucks" topics), of course, mods or admins are quicker to set an end to this.

Again, though, Kenni can ban you if your nose doesn't fit you. He pays the bills, he runs the site. Always keep that in mind, in any forum. I don't think he actually did ban you because he disliked your nose though. But, of course there's a bit divergence between how mods act on this or that site. Also, so far, we only know the way you described the whole thing from your point. Again, no offense, but, in my experience, there's always two sides, and i don't know what happened before, or the store in its whole.

Controlling the narrative is never a good thing, especially when the marketing department is involved.

Same rules apply to everything in life... the problem isn't peoples' opinions, it's how people react to them.

My opinion about the base topic here is that it wasn't a problem with the opinions being expressed by psuper, it had more to do with the frequency and tone in which those opinions got expressed. Just my view, I'm not a mod or anything and have had warnings from reasontalk, but psuper's insistence that his views held great weight and their repetition got on my nerves. I agreed with some of what he said but it got to be trolling IMO.

[Psuper]

My opinion about the base topic here is that it wasn't a problem with the opinions being expressed by psuper, it had more to do with the frequency and tone in which those opinions got expressed. Just my view, I'm not a mod or anything and have had warnings from reasontalk, but psuper's insistence that his views held great weight and their repetition got on my nerves. I agreed with some of what he said but it got to be trolling IMO.

Its clear Kenni (and many others) have issues with opinions being expressed -- frequency was no more than any other participant, quite a bit less in fact given the overwhelming "cheering" threads. Nor tone, which favored light treading and respect even when presented with unbridled rudeness. For every voice with constructive criticism of Propellerhead, there were far more consistent verbose fannies.

I respect your opinion Tincture, as I respected anyone who is even borderline thoughtful with me. However calling opposing opinions "trolls" or "denigrating elitism" when its clear I'm neutral at worst.. well that shows a lack of confidence or lack of experience with the matter at hand.

It doesn't take a genius to realize Kenni (and a few others) lent that weight to my comments with repeated insults, intentionally blurring resourceful responses with basically what you (Tincture) just tried to elude to. Sure I'm confident in what I have to say, confidence makes weak or thoughtless responses even more feeble.

It also doesn't take a genius to realize I was equally positive about Reason, far more than many on the board... which I never ever heard anyone call a transgression or get "upset" about.

I know Reason has problems, and so do many of you. The difference is in approach -- many on Reasontalk think the answer is to pretend Reason is with few or inconsequential faults then hope Propellerhead lands a whole lotta sales in hopes they continue to get what they personally benefit from. I however know its best to specify what is great and not great about Reason on a personal basis as all of our needs are different, and find common ground to improve where necessary.

[tincture]

@psuper: i just have a different view than yours about your postings there. I like the site and i think it tries to be balanced. I don't think there's any correct or incorrect here. Just opinions. I would be miffed if i got banned from RT. So i understand you in that a least.