On the fence with Ableton Live and Maschine

[antic604]

Sounds like you really want Maschine workflow and dislike some aspects of Live + Push

I'd say go for it - you'll get Komplete 11 Select with it (Massive, Monark, Prism, DrumLab, DrumSynth, basic FX, lots of loops & samples) and a lot of 3rd party VSTs get NKS support nowadays, which means you'll be able to control them & browse their presets without touching the computer. Seeing how the software has evolved over the years they'll be getting there in terms of it working as a standalone DAW. Even now you can pretty much use it like that with new support for audio loops manipulation, ideas view, etc.

Also, the MK3 costs half the price of Live10 Suite + Push2, so you'll be left with money for Komplete Kontrol keyboard, Maschine Jam or upgrade to full Komplete.

[nachenko]

Sounds like you really want Maschine workflow and dislike some aspects of Live + Push

HAHAHA!!! You got me! Yes, I'm comfy with Maschine workflow, and I love the interface. Let's face that, Native Instruments KNOW how to make things look great (and colorful, I like colors, I'm that simple). What I dislike is the fact that using Maschine means using Maschine AND some other stuff, and I'm trying very hard to simplify my setup as much as possible.

The stuff included in Komplete is nice

Anyway, I tried to make some noise yesterday with Live. So far, Live interface is pure logic to me. I managed to create a default setup for an external synth plugin and I could do on the first try. I also wanted to add effects to just one sample in a drum rack, then add another to the whole rack. Drag 'n' drop at the right place, done. I also like the fact that every included effect in Live does just one thing each. In FLStudio, some effects are actually several effects combined (Delay 3 has a nice bitcrusher, but this same bitcrusher is not available on its own, for example).

I could also try combinations putting the bass in'n'out simply firing and stopping clips in the session view. And all this using mouse only. Fantastic job, Ableton.

The sample browser is the only thing that is killing me. After browsing the included drum samples, trying kick after kick, then snare after snare, then hats... in huge folders with no sorting or naming criteria, I just dropped the ball off and went to my own Samples folder. This is one of the things where Maschine kills any other environment I know, BTW.

[mutantdog]

The browser is by far the most frustratingly ill-designed element of Live. While at least the "sounds" folder is fairly well sorted by category, the drums folder is awful. I have Suite now so have hundreds of ready made and well made drum racks and they are all there as a long alphabetical list, at the very least it would be better if they were sub-categorised by pack. A larger font option for the browser alone would also be nice.

But i'm probably derailing this thread a bit so i'll stop there.

[pottering]

I have Suite now so have hundreds of ready made and well made drum racks and they are all there as a long alphabetical list, at the very least it would be better if they were sub-categorised by pack.

You can right click the name bar in the Browser, add a column for "Place" (which lists which Pack the item is from). Then you can sort the results by "Place".

[mutantdog]

Nice one. I never noticed that before.

[thecontrolcentre]

Nice one. I never noticed that before.

Me neither ... thanks

[antic604]

Anyway, I tried to make some noise yesterday with Live. So far, Live interface is pure logic to me. I managed to create a default setup for an external synth plugin and I could do on the first try. I also wanted to add effects to just one sample in a drum rack, then add another to the whole rack. Drag 'n' drop at the right place, done. I also like the fact that every included effect in Live does just one thing each. In FLStudio, some effects are actually several effects combined (Delay 3 has a nice bitcrusher, but this same bitcrusher is not available on its own, for example).

I could also try combinations putting the bass in'n'out simply firing and stopping clips in the session view. And all this using mouse only. Fantastic job, Ableton.

Yeah, Live is really well though out! And when you add Push2 to it it's magic. I bought it few weeks ago, watched the tutorials and I was able to do this on my first sitting, without touching the computer and even pulled off a "performance" - it's that simple and logically laid out and organised:



I really don't envy you the choice you want to make

[Kinh]

If you're serious about music production and intend to finish whole songs/tracks you cant seriously expect to scrape by on Maschine and not spend any major time in your daw. Obviously you dont enjoy working in FL and quite frankly I blame you, but if you want MPC style workflow, Ableton is closest. Certainly closer than Bitwig and FL.

If you just want to create beats (and there's nothing wrong wit that) then use your hardware MPC in FL. You mention you do EDM though, so you need Ableton, there's no compromise here, you cant talk your way out of it. You can either find that out the easy or hard way (wasting time thinking you can get by without it).

[SoundPorn]

Ableton and Studio One got the quickest and easiest to understand workflow imo.

But if you're specifically looking for hardware integration especially with an mpc style workflow then Ableton is by far and away the best choice. I got a Novation Launchkey and fell in love with how it comes synced to Ableton. I dun have to midi learn things to get started tweaking it's already assigned. I also loved Abletons sampler.

If you're only really worried about the file browser which is frustrating that's an easy fix just download ADSR sample manager library or any of the other great sample managing apps that are out that sync to you're DAW too. I just go Loopcloud 3.0 which allows you to add you're own files too now so that's a game changer.

I'd also suggest checking out WaveForm 9 I love the workflow in that DAW and visually it may fit what you're comfortable looking at if you're coming from FL Studio.

[nachenko]

Native Instruments did their usual September update announcement. No mention to Maschine software.

After testing Live, I have to say: Live wins. Now it's a matter of choosing a controller. It's going to be second hand. You can find Push 1 for 250€ or Maschine Jam for 200 € in my country (Komplete 11 elements included) if you look and wait enough, and the Maschine Jam template for Live looks well adapted for Live. It's just my opinion, but those prices sound like bargain to me.

[Reefius]

When choosing between Push 1 and Maschine Jam I think Push is the better choice, mainly because Maschine Jam has no display, no velocity sensitive pads and no rotary knobs. Push 1 also has better integration with Live because it was created for it. It is also still supported by Ableton and new functionality is still being added.

[xx JPRacer xx]

Forget Maschine Jam, I have it and it's only good for launching clips and not much else. Push is much better overall. Also take a look at Bitwig. I've been with Live since version 5 and tried a lot of other DAWs too. Bitwig is the future!

[nachenko]

Well, a decision has been made. Thanks everyone for their help and insights. As I said before, I live in a small town, so going to a shop and testing stuff was simply not an option.

After a lot of thinking and testing, I bought a used license for Ableton Live 9 Suite and I'm now looking for a used Push controller.

Maschine stuff is great and it looks and feels amazing, I honestly think it's a great, great product, but I finally understood that, at the moment of writing this, the Maschine ecosystem is an "instrument", not a production system. It would be great if were part of a band, but it's not my case. Not now, at least.

I also tested Bitwig. Another great DAW, it would have been a great "plan B". I'm sure I would be quite comfy working with it. I just found that killer deal on Live 9 Suite and I had to jump in. And the more I use it, the more I see I did the right thing. I sometimes miss stuff from FLStudio (I still think it's amazing, just different philosophy to what I need now).

I hope I find some time in the following weeks to write about the experience of going from FLStudio to Live.

Cheers!

[Kinh]

After a lot of thinking and testing, I bought a used license for Ableton Live 9 Suite and I'm now looking for a used Push controller.

Maschine stuff is great and it looks and feels amazing, I honestly think it's a great, great product, but I finally understood that, at the moment of writing this, the Maschine ecosystem is an "instrument", not a production system. It would be great if were part of a band, but it's not my case. Not now, at least.


Cheers!

Well you made the right choice so give yourself a pat on the back. Ableton is hands down the greatest DAW for electronic music. Nothing is remotely close. And Maschine would've been of little use to you. MPCs, regardless of what brand or specs are just beat makers and hiphop, in it's conventional sense (slicing) doesn't exist anymore.

[bdarms]

Hello,

After looking at Ableton for a while, I decided to take the plunge. I'm coming from Cakewalk and Reaper, so I have a particular aversion to software bugs (thx Cakewalk) and too much customization/options to do simple tasks (Reaper at times). I like NI hardware, so I'm interested in using Maschine Jam with Ableton. Considering my preferences, would you say that using Maschine Jam is straightforward or does it feel like it's a suqare peg trying to forced into a round hole? Would I be better off picking up the Akai APC40? Unfortunately, I don't have enough for the Push.

TL;DR Does Maschine Jam play nice with Ableton 10/11 or is it too finicky? Am I better off with the Akai APC40 as far as getting a proper plug and play experience?

Thanks in advance