Mpowersynth with Msoundfactory upgrade?

[Faiky]

The communication is one of the best, I think. The decisions are the problems . Try to ask for a license for mpowersynth again (regarding to the issue) and say us what happened.


And yes, if you've msoundfactory, you don't need mpowersynth. It's much more powerful! You can use devices if you need it simple. Or just add mpowersynth in the fx section, decrease all the panels left and right and save it as a preset.

[shani ace]

Hey guys, I was just thinking about buying MDrummer and MPowerSynth after my trials expired, when I saw on the MPowerSynth page that it can be upgraded to MSoundFactory.
Can anybody tell me if MPowersynth is also included in MSoundFactory LE? Or only in the full version?

Edit: Well I got MSoundFactory now but I can't find the MPowerSynth Presets anywhere, not even in the FX folder of MSoundFactory. How do you import them?

[peejay123]

The MPowerSynth presets were ported over to MSoundFactory, they are the presets in the main presets menu, they just aren't labelled as such.

I don't know anything about the LE versions, but if you have MSF, you don't really need MPS. MSF can do everything that MPS can do, and much more. MPS is essentially a combination of oscillators, noise generator, mixers, mergers and filters in the Generator section feeding into the FX section. Just check out the presets mentioned above to see how they are built.

[shani ace]

Yeah I eventually got it sorted with the help of the Melda product support.
I had bought the LE version first, thinking that the MPS presets surely would be included if LE has all the samples of the full version, only without the edit screen (which I'm not interested in, I already got enough FX devices etc in Reason). Otherwise I would've bought the full version directly.
So with the help of the support, I was able to upgrade to the full version for the regular price.

The MPowerSynth presets were ported over to MSoundFactory, they are the presets in the main presets menu, they just aren't labelled as such.

Actually they're not, I crosschecked because I had already favourited a bunch of them in MPS, and none of them were listed in the main presets of MSF. They're definitely not included there!
See here, on the left is MSF and on the right MPS:

That's where I had been looking for them all the time, both in LE and the full version. Since people had mentioned an FX section, I had assumed they'd be in the FX folder in the presets.

But their support was very nice and helpful! They told me to go to MSF's EDIT screen, then to the FX tab and select PowerSynth.
I still couldn't find it there and even sent some screenshots, so they could quickly point me to the right element and told me to press on any input in the "modular editor" (which was on several of my screenshots).
And still, I had no clue what was meant at first! Took me a few minutes to realize that these rectangles are actually clickable and then I finally was able to add MPS!

---

How To Add MPowerSynth to MSoundFactory

So for anyone else out there who may find this thread on Google like I did, to get the MPS presets in MSF do this:

• Click on Edit at the top
• Click on the FX tab
• Click on any of the rectangles on the left
• Then under Synthesis, select PowerSynth
• Back on the FX tab, click on Presets inside the Powersynth module

[Held]

The MPowerSynth presets were ported over to MSoundFactory, they are the presets in the main presets menu, they just aren't labelled as such.

Actually they're not, I crosschecked because I had already favourited a bunch of them in MPS, and none of them were listed in the main presets of MSF. They're definitely not included there!

You have to look at the "Global Presets". In your screenshot, that's the button with the six dots right next to the "MSoundFactory" text at the top left. You are looking at the 'instruments' which is a new concept in MSF.

But they weren't all ported, only some of them. And the MPS patches have multi-parameter mappings to adjust the sound that aren't there in MSF.

I thought I didn't need MPowerSynth, but after I bought the MCompleteBundle, I find myself using it just as much as MSF.

So if money is not an issue, I'd recommend getting them both for everyone who enjoys making synth-sounds, or if you have MSF, at least give MPowerSynth a try in the FX section, although that's a little less convenient.

So for anyone else out there who may find this thread on Google like I did, to get the MPS presets in MSF do this:

Thanks for posting the instructions here. That's very nice.

[shani ace]

You have to look at the "Global Presets". In your screenshot, that's the button with the six dots right next to the "MSoundFactory" text at the top left. You are looking at the 'instruments' which is a new concept in MSF.

But they weren't all ported, only some of them.

Ooooh! Didn't know about that, thanks!
And yeah I just checked, some of them are, but many of the MPS presets aren't in there either.

Also the global presets window doesn't seem to recognize which ones you've favourited in MPS (if you used it during the trial like I did), but the MPS in MSF's FX tab does.

I really like what the Melda VSTs are offering, but their UI could certainly be a lot clearer.
I haven't even used the MPS presets in my songs yet (only MDrummer so far), but already found a lot of great synth sounds that I'm definitely gonna use in my next projects.

[Held]

I really like what the Melda VSTs are offering, but their UI could certainly be a lot clearer.

It really helps to watch at least some of the official video tutorials. Melda plugins are super complex and unfortunately, that's reflected in their UI. But once you understand them, they are much more efficient to use than most other plugins. Especially if you optimize your workflow by setting up devices for the easy screens.

Here's the playlist for MSoundFactory: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 1eE7VFKA9o

Chandler also makes a lot of great tutorials. Here's one for MPowerSynth:

[shani ace]

It really helps to watch at least some of the official video tutorials.

I actually did, but unfortunately there was no video explaining how to add MPS to MSF.

And I disagree, the VSTs are not complex at all, the UI is just very cluttered. The functionality is actually pretty straightforward if you've worked with a DAW before.
It's certainly not a necessity to have such a cluttered UI, it could be designed much clearer without giving up any complexity.

[Held]

It really helps to watch at least some of the official video tutorials.

I actually did, but unfortunately there was no video explaining how to add MPS to MSF.

I know, but it explains that you need to click on one of the rectangles to add modules which you struggled with.

And I disagree, the VSTs are not complex at all, the UI is just very cluttered. The functionality is actually pretty straightforward if you've worked with a DAW before.

What does cluttered even mean? There isn't anything unnecessary in the UI that I'm aware of.

It would be great if you could provide a specific example and how it could improved without negatively affecting anything else. Vojtech is constantly working on improving the UI, so I'm sure he'd be happy if you had any insights on how to improve it for all users, not just beginners.

[shani ace]

I know, but it explains that you need to click on one of the rectangles to add modules which you struggled with.

That's the thing, for someone looking specifically for importing MPS in MSF, it is not apparent that you have to look into the tutorial that explains how to add modules by clicking those rectangles.
You can only know about that connection between the two if you already know how MSF works.

To give you an even more specific example: , you briefly see the screen with all the modules for a second.
But only now in hindsight, with my new knowledge, do I know that MPS is there. When I was clueless and looking for it, I couldn't find it.
Tutorials are not exactly helpful if the crucial info leading you to the right tutorial is buried so deeply that it becomes inaccessible without prior knowledge (which the tutorials are supposed to provide).
This could be easily solved by adding a specific tutorial for adding MPS and MDrummer to MSF.

What does cluttered even mean? There isn't anything unnecessary in the UI that I'm aware of.

It means there are menus inside of menus inside of menus, which 'hides' MSF's features from the user. That's bad practice in UI design. You want the user to intuitively understand where things are, and to do that you have to guide them with a good UI.
A good UI makes everything available on as few levels as possible and clearly communicates (with intuitive design, not with explanations) to the user where they find what they're looking for.
It just needs a clear and concise structure, that's all.

Take this for example:

There are so many unnecessary layers!
In this example, in order to use the MPS presets you have to go through 6 layers, which is simply not user-friendly or effective:

• Open the VST in your DAW
• Go to the FX tab
• Click on Edit
• Click one of the rectangles (which are not identifiable as modules at all)
• Find MPS (in this example) from the long list of modules
• Click on Presets inside MPS - but not the Global presets nor the instrument presets, even though all three elements are styled identically

And steps 2-4 are completely counterintuitive for selecting presets.

The right way to do it would be:

• Open the VST in your DAW
• Click on Presets in MSF
• Find the MPS presets together with the MSF Presets, optionally in a subfolder called "MPowerSynth" (although I think that's unnecessary)

There's absolutely no reason to bary presets from modules deep in there, they're just presets, just like the MSF presets, so they should be put together where they belong.

The UI could certainly be simplified and made more elegant without losing any of the complexity or impacting anyone negatively.
Take Reason for example (the DAW I'm using), it has tons of devices that basically do what the edit screen does, they offer the same level of complexity, but it's always only one layer.

Another example: there are different menus called "Presets" which are completely different and have nothing to do with each other. Overloading one name with several features or elements is also bad practice when it comes to naming and labelling.

There's definitely a lot of potential for improvement of quality from a QA perspective, but of course I also understand that it takes more resources to optimize.

[Held]

I know, but it explains that you need to click on one of the rectangles to add modules which you struggled with.

That's the thing, for someone looking specifically for importing MPS in MSF, it is not apparent that you have to look into the tutorial that explains how to add modules by clicking those rectangles.
You can only know about that connection between the two if you already know how MSF works.

Exactly. You need to learn how MSF works if you want to use it. If you have no interest in learning that, why buy it in the first place? You'll be happier with MPS.

What does cluttered even mean? There isn't anything unnecessary in the UI that I'm aware of.

It means there are menus inside of menus inside of menus, which 'hides' MSF's features from the user. That's bad practice in UI design. You want the user to intuitively understand where things are, and to do that you have to guide them with a good UI.
A good UI makes everything available on as few levels as possible and clearly communicates (with intuitive design, not with explanations) to the user where they find what they're looking for.
It just needs a clear and concise structure, that's all.

Exactly. As few layers as possible. Unfortunately, MSF has a ton of functionality, so many layers are necessary because otherwise the UI would be huge and not fit the screen. Other modular synths make you scroll or have tiny interfaces or both. I prefer pop-up window and I don't understand the hate from some people.

You can obviously argue about what should be in which layer because everyone has different priority, but again, MPowerSynth already has a stand-alone version, so I think it shouldn't given a more prominent position in the UI of MSF.

If you use MSF for the primary use-case of playing with the instruments on the easy screen, you'll have a much better time than if you try to use it with MPS which is only an edge case.

Take Reason for example (the DAW I'm using), it has tons of devices that basically do what the edit screen does, they offer the same level of complexity, but it's always only one layer.

How many devices can you add before you have to start scrolling? It's not really one layer if it's not always on the screen.

There's absolutely no reason to bary presets from modules deep in there, they're just presets, just like the MSF presets, so they should be put together where they belong.

That's just wrong. MSF presets include every setting of loaded modules, including all instances of MPS where as MPS presets only include MPS settings.

MPS really isn't a main use case for MSF and I don't think it belongs in the global preset folder. Being able to load it and MDrummer is just a nice bonus if you can't afford the stand-alone version or if you want to share an FX grid and modulators. Otherwise, just buy MPowerSynth and the presets are easily accessible.

You're trying to abuse MSF as a replacement of MPS, and that's why you're having such a bad time with it.

Another example: there are different menus called "Presets" which are completely different and have nothing to do with each other. Overloading one name with several features or elements is also bad practice when it comes to naming and labelling.

I think it's great that there are presets for pretty much every section of the plugins and I've never been confused by the term. 'Presets' always refers to the section where the button is. The term isn't overloaded at all because it is always clear from the context what it means.

There are things in the UI that I would like to see improved, for example a way to see all favorite presets at once, but I don't think the UI is cluttered or unintuitive. Maybe that's because they are one of the first plugins I got, so I'm used to them and I find other interfaces cluttered with their unnecessary pictures of analog gear that's just distracting.

Melda is also adding more of those, but fortunately, I can turn them off and keep my clean uncluttered UI.

If you want to get the most out of the MeldaPlugins, watch all the tutorials on Modulators, Multiparameters, MXXX etc, and you'll have much more fun. Otherwise, you'll only scratch the surface and the interface will be 'cluttered' with things you don't understand.

[shani ace]

Exactly. You need to learn how MSF works if you want to use it. If you have no interest in learning that, why buy it in the first place? You'll be happier with MPS.

Because MSF (with MPS included) offers more samples than just MPS, and MPS costs the same. Would simply be a waste of money to only buy MPS.

MPowerSynth already has a stand-alone version, so I think it shouldn't given a more prominent position in the UI of MSF.

That's not what I suggested. I was only talking about MPS's presets which should be included in MSF's presets. I don't mind that MPS itself is in the modules section.

If you use MSF for the primary use-case of playing with the instruments on the easy screen, you'll have a much better time than if you try to use it with MPS which is only an edge case.

Nope, not even that. I simply select a sample that I like and then close MSF. If I want to change its sound, I'll just do that by connecting devices to it in Reason.
Of course, it's totally possible that I might use MSF's features occasionally in the future too, but currently there's no need.

How many devices can you add before you have to start scrolling? It's not really one layer if it's not always on the screen.

Of course you have to scroll, what's wrong with using your mouse's scroll wheel?
And of course that's one layer, I think you misunderstand what is meant by an application layer.
They are different levels with a fixed entry point. Scrolling is not an entry point (which you would have to click to enter, for example), it's simply necessary because monitors are not endless. It's still only one layer, just like a huge folder on your PC is still only one layer, no matter how long you have to scroll through it.

MSF presets include every setting of loaded modules, including all instances of MPS where as MPS presets only include MPS settings.

Nope, it doesn't. I already posted screenshots (see my post from Fri May 07, 2021 1:17 am) showing that the MSF presets do not include all MPS presets. If you think they should, then this is a bug.

MPS really isn't a main use case for MSF and I don't think it belongs in the global preset folder. Being able to load it and MDrummer is just a nice bonus if you can't afford the stand-alone version or if you want to share an FX grid and modulators. Otherwise, just buy MPowerSynth and the presets are easily accessible.

You're trying to abuse MSF as a replacement of MPS, and that's why you're having such a bad time with it.

Not at all. You're still not getting it, that's not the argument I was making. MPS is just an example, MSF includes lots of other modules as well.
My point - which, in case you've lost track, itself was also just an example for MSF's clutteredness - is that MSF's presets folders should include all the presets from its modules (not just MPS), and without having to activate each module first
That's simply best practice in UI design, drastically shortens clickpaths (= saves users a lot of time) and streamlines the UI.

But why are you getting so defensive? It's not like I was saying MSF is a bad VST, it's actually good - with a lot of potential for improvement - but not great. And it could actually be great with a proper revamp of its UI.
Maybe you've just gotten too used to it to be able to view it objectively, that happens. We humans are good at getting used to flawed systems. In these situations, outside views - or any other perspective - can be refreshing and helpful to make progress where we didn't think progress was possible or necessary, because our judgement was too clouded to be able to see it. I think that's what's happening here.
Anyway, since it's impossible to continue this in a factual matter, I think this discussion has run its course.

[Held]

Wow, you don't seem to understand what I'm saying at all. I'm not upset, and I'm not defending any flaws. I like MSF the way it is and the things that bother you work great for me.

People often reject better options simply because they are unfamiliar. We humans are good at blaming others for our lack of understanding. I hope you still get something out of your investment, even though you think it's terribly flawed. Good luck

[shani ace]

No, again, I don't think it's terribly flawed (that's what I meant by you being so upset or defensive, you're reading things into my words that are not there). It's good but it could be great. Certainly hasn't reached its full potential yet, but I'm sure it can over time with more work on it.

And I'm pretty happy having purchased MDrummer and MSF (why would you even question that?), looking forward to working more with them.

Just think about it, would I take the time to discuss at length how to make it better if I didn't like and care about MSF? Come on.

[DocSnyder]

No, again, I don't think it's terribly flawed (that's what I meant by you being so upset or defensive, you're reading things into my words that are not there).

Welcome to the all-or-nothing community. You'll get used to the 4 or 5 extreme people. The others are at least more helpful from what I've read so far.