Steinberg Discontinuing VST2 Support in its products

[S0lo]

If anything, that's an extension of an existing standard, no replacement, or the next version. MIDI is still MIDI.

You're right. But then thats part of the argument against VST3.

[chk071]

Dunno. I always thought a successor will replace the predecessor, when it get discontinued, and disappears. MIDI won't disppear. At least not in the foreseeable future.

[S0lo]

MIDI 2.0 is fully backward-compatible with MIDI 1.0.

i.e. The version number went up, Yet it's not a replacement. It's a major amendment.

[jamcat]

The first thing I check before buying a plugin is that it is VST3.
If it’s not VST3, I will not buy it. That’s been my MO for several years now.

Last VST2 plugins I bought was the Arché Collection. They are very buggy and there is a total lack of development on them from Expressive E. Their lack of VST3 versions should have been a red flag for me. It’s that experience that lead me to avoid developers who don’t support VST3.

Lack of VST3 support is ALWAYS a symptom of larger problems with a developer. More often than not it is a signal that the plugin is no longer being supported, even though the developer may still be taking customers’ money for it. Avoid those plugins and their developers and you will avoid a lot of frustration and heartache.

[chk071]

MIDI 2.0 is fully backward-compatible with MIDI 1.0.

i.e. The version number went up, Yet it's not a replacement. It's a major amendment.

Two things: I don't see MIDI 2.0 controllers anywhere. Second, obviously, you say that VST3 could have been made fully backwards compatible to VST3. Maybe you should talk to Steinberg's developers then, and suggest changes they could do, which could provide this backwards compatibility.

TBH, this once again reads like the picture I posted elsewhere.



If someone who knows everything so much better than other people, of course, tries to establish yet another standard, then that will only mean additional work for developers, and a further fragmentation of the market. Why do intelligent people not understand that?

It's also shitty for customers. More work means longer periods of no product development, or even raised prices due to the bigger amount of work.

[S0lo]

Two things: I don't see MIDI 2.0 controllers anywhere. Second, ......

Google for MIDI-CI. MIDI 1.0 controllers are still supported under MIDI 2.0 on fall back when the device doesn't support the new features in MIDI 2.0

[S0lo]

If someone who knows everything so much better than other people, of course, tries to establish yet another standard, then that will only mean additional work for developers, and a further fragmentation of the market. Why do intelligent people not understand that?

It's also shitty for customers. More work means longer periods of no product development, or even raised prices due to the bigger amount of work.

I totally agree with that. But then the VST3 standard its self is so alien and incompatible with VST2 that it literally can be considered a new standard on it's own and hence be blamed for the same argument you're mentioning here.

[tony10000]

The first thing I check before buying a plugin is that it is VST3.
If it’s not VST3, I will not buy it. That’s been my MO for several years now.

Last VST2 plugins I bought was the Arché Collection. They are very buggy and there is a total lack of development on them from Expressive E. Their lack of VST3 versions should have been a red flag for me. It’s that experience that lead me to avoid developers who don’t support VST3.

Lack of VST3 support is ALWAYS a symptom of larger problems with a developer. More often than not it is a signal that the plugin is no longer being supported, even though the developer may still be taking customers’ money for it. Avoid those plugins and their developers and you will avoid a lot of frustration and heartache.

Serum is not VST3 yet. And it is a very well supported plugin.

[jamcat]

That remains to be seen.

[tony10000]

Do a Google search on "problems with VST3" and you will see why a lot of devs and end users are sticking with VST2.

[chk071]

Do a Google search on anything, and you're safe to find lots of problems.

Sorry, I really don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but, I just don't get what is supposed to be the alternative. Wait for 20 years until maybe, just maybe, another standard has established itself? IF it establishes itself. Cubase is one of the biggest DAW on the market, and, you can be sure that they won't switch to another plugin standard.

And, the fact that many plugins work as well in VST3 as they do in VST2 tells me that, if properly coded, for the user, there is no difference.

I think what some just don't want to accept is that nothing is perfect. MP3 wasn't perfect either. But, it was compatible, and widely adopted and available. That's much more worth than being perfect.

[tony10000]

Do a Google search on anything, and you're safe to find lots of problems.

Sorry, I really don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but, I just don't get what is supposed to be the alternative. Wait for 20 years until maybe, just maybe, another standard has established itself? IF it establishes itself. Cubase is one of the biggest DAW on the market, and, you can be sure that they won't switch to another plugin standard.

And, the fact that many plugins work as well in VST3 as they do in VST2 tells me that, if properly coded, for the user, there is no difference.

I think what some just don't want to accept is that nothing is perfect. MP3 wasn't perfect either. But, it was compatible, and widely adopted and available. That's much more worth than being perfect.

The issues with VST3 are pretty well known and have plagued the format for years---almost a decade, in fact. That is why devs like u-he, Bitwig, and Reaper are reportedly working on an open source alternative called CLAP:

Example:

viewtopic.php?t=398532

[Sindikhate]

Do a Google search on anything, and you're safe to find lots of problems.

Sorry, I really don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but, I just don't get what is supposed to be the alternative. Wait for 20 years until maybe, just maybe, another standard has established itself? IF it establishes itself. Cubase is one of the biggest DAW on the market, and, you can be sure that they won't switch to another plugin standard.

And, the fact that many plugins work as well in VST3 as they do in VST2 tells me that, if properly coded, for the user, there is no difference.

I think what some just don't want to accept is that nothing is perfect. MP3 wasn't perfect either. But, it was compatible, and widely adopted and available. That's much more worth than being perfect.

Comparing the mp3 which became big because almost everyone was downloading music for free for years... to supposedly professional software, where people actually PAY money and in some cases A LOT of extra money for that extra 5% in sound quality/features/etc etc only to lose it because one company is stroppy... is wrong.

I have heard from a few plugin developers that Windows will follow Apple on their recent OS changes. Maybe vst2 will not be able to run in future Windows OS either?

[whyterabbyt]

I think what some just don't want to accept is that nothing is perfect. MP3 wasn't perfect either. But, it was compatible, and widely adopted and available. That's much more worth than being perfect.

well, no it wasnt compatible until there were players specifically for it. and it wasnt widely adopted and available until it was.
it didnt just come into existence on everybody's computer.

and didnt RealPlayer precede MP3, and was 'widely adopted and available' so why create MP3?

you might as well (falsely) argue that HTML5 and CSS and WebGL shouldnt even have been created because Flash was ' compatible, and widely adopted and available.'

or horse-drawn buggies.

[jamcat]

Do a Google search on "problems with VST3" and you will see why a lot of devs and end users are sticking with VST2.

The main problem with VST3 is that old developers have to learn new tricks to code them.

Of all my plugins, only 3 don’t support VST3. So a lot of developers seem to be coding VST3 plugins quite successfully.

I won’t buy a plugin that still supports 32-bit, and I won’t buy a plugin that supports fringe/hobbyist formats like the clap format either. The reason is simple: that developer is wasting extremely limited resources that otherwise could have gone to updates and support of the viable professional formats that matter.