Ableton Suite or Bitwig (advice for someone coming from Renoise)?

[hallwayraptor]

After using Bitwig for about 11 months, Live feels awful. I used Live for years before trying Bitwig last year.

Others brought up good points but a couple of things I didn't see or want to re-iterate:
- Bitwig has fully customizable keybinds
- Bitwig's side by side clip/arranger view is more useful than I originally thought it would be. I never used clips in Live at all but in Bitwig I use it almost like a browser or scratchpad for my midi tracks then drag them into the arranger view.
- Moss script: Driven by Moss is incredibly powerful if you have a supported midi controller.
- Mixer view: One of the biggest annoyances I had with Live was the mixer view. In Bitwig you can see large meters, plugins, groups, etc. all neatly arranged in the mixer view.
- Edit view: Bitwig has the option for a full screen edit view in addition to the small one at the bottom. Works extremely well for editing multiple midi tracks at once.
- Browser: everyone already said it but oh my god Bitwig's browser is awesome.

Bitwig is fairly new so it is missing a few features that I would really love to see. For me the big ones are:
- Theming
- Midi comping
- step editing
- Retrospective midi recording

[Igelhaft]

I think it's just really down to whatever clicks with you more. Make songs in both for a bit. For me Ableton felt better, but it might be different for you.

If you may want to use the Push Ableton's got that going for it, but I think (not 100% sure) there's actually some software to let you use that in Bitwig too so really it's kinda a toss-up all around.

[SLiC]

You can use PUSH in Bitwig (I have a PUSH 2. Live and Bitwig) but in my opinion it only really fulfils its potential in LIve- it was made for Live and the graphics and control on PUSH for all of the Live instruments and FX make it feel like you are using stand alone hardware...its probably the best integrated DAW controller/instrument available...its made by Ableton for Ableton.

Maybe one day AKAI or someone will make a dedicated MPE Bitwig Controller!

[_leras]

If you want to produce fast and to the point:
Ableton.

If you like to get lost in an endless and inviting modulation rabbit hole (losing your compass):
Bitwig.

Sorry, but that's complete bs.

I use Bitwig and I just really love the flow of the software for writing music. It makes me very happy and productive.

the ability to I.e. add a gentle LFO in a few clicks and route it to a vst control is so easy and makes organic motion easy to achieve. Also has really great tools.and utilities.

I've never got lost in an endless modulation rabbit hole.

Bitwig is a joy to use. I use it mainly with third party plug ins, with the exception of some things like the drum machine, and it's eqs for some tasks.

It's built in FX have also got a lot better over the past few releases. The convolution reverb and the new delay (with feedback FX chain) are superb. The instruments are all pretty good too.

The real answer is try and make a track in both and see how you get on.

[Effectsworks]

I had Bitwig and sold it. I'm very happy with Live 11 but YMMV.

[liquidsound]

If you want to produce fast and to the point:
Ableton.

If you like to get lost in an endless and inviting modulation rabbit hole (losing your compass):
Bitwig.

Sorry, but that's complete bs.

I use Bitwig and I just really love the flow of the software for writing music. It makes me very happy and productive.

the ability to I.e. add a gentle LFO in a few clicks and route it to a vst control is so easy and makes organic motion easy to achieve. Also has really great tools.and utilities.

I've never got lost in an endless modulation rabbit hole.

Bitwig is a joy to use. I use it mainly with third party plug ins, with the exception of some things like the drum machine, and it's eqs for some tasks.

It's built in FX have also got a lot better over the past few releases. The convolution reverb and the new delay (with feedback FX chain) are superb. The instruments are all pretty good too.

The real answer is try and make a track in both and see how you get on.

To each his own BS if that fits you better

[gondii]

I had my Bitwig license for a year now and haven't opened Live since then. I work much faster in Bitwig.

[Tendou]

I had my Bitwig license for a year now and haven't opened Live since then. I work much faster in Bitwig.

how was the transition?

I tried the bitwig demo coming from live 10 and I was sloooow. moreover I felt somehow lost when I wanted to do similiar things like in live?

[gondii]

I had my Bitwig license for a year now and haven't opened Live since then. I work much faster in Bitwig.

how was the transition?

I tried the bitwig demo coming from live 10 and I was sloooow. moreover I felt somehow lost when I wanted to do similiar things like in live?

Interesting, how much time did you spend with it?

The biggest reason for the switch was that Live was just so annoyingly unstable. It crashed or froze quite often, took ages to load up and just didn't seem to run very well and I had lots of CPU spikes. I have no issues whatsoever with Bitwig, it runs so well on my system. This is the reason why I even tried it in the first place and this would be the number one reason why I don't even bother with Live currently. But that aside, I still much prefer working in Bitwig.

So, I personally found the transition super smooth. I mean it is quite similar, considering they are former Ableton devs that took a bunch of code with them. But I feel like it's a lot more intuitive and user friendly and the features appear to be very well integrated. To me, Bitwig seems more like a finished and polished product. I can do the things that I want to do very effectively. And also I think it looks better. But probably all this is also just personal preference.

I much prefer the modulation integration (compared to M4L). It makes me use and experiment with it much more. And it feels like it's actually supposed to work like that, even with third party vst, instead of in Live, where I always had the feeling I downloaded a "workaround". I barely even use the Grid, but it's so well done as well.. just little things like swapping out modules and keeping the routing and settings. Really well thought out.

The routing options are incredible. I can just chain an indefinite amount of midi fx onto the same track, while in Live I had to create multiple dedicated midi tracks to route into each other. And I can pretty much take or send audio and midi signals from anywhere to anywhere. I can even route to and from the individual output channels of a third party vst and put individual effects on each channel. And I can add all of the outputs with a click of a button. So I don't even need to bother with resampling or rerouting to multiple tracks for mixing, I can just mix right out the gate. So much faster and more user friendly.

I also love how easy and versatile it is to bounce tracks to audio, thanks to hybrid tracks (midi and audio on the same track). I can bounce to audio right there while leaving the plugin chain completely intact, instruments and all. It's less destructive and makes me "commit" to audio faster. And then I can just drag and drop the audio from within Bitwig into another vst in wave format without having to deal with the Live format. And with generated midi, I don't even need to "print" the midi first, I can just highlight the empty section on the track, bounce it and get the audio. No routing + resampling, just a couple of clicks.

I expected my hardware to not work as well in Bitwig (I mostly use a Launchpad and a Native Instruments S61, no Push) however the DrivenByMoss script made them on par if not better even. Also Bitwig has an actual mixer, where I can see and switch off / open all vst of all tracks at the same time. Reminds me much more to that of Logic and something I always missed in Live.

I think there are loads of other quality of life features that have improved my workflow that I always notice when using Bitwig. Little things, like being able to send to all the channels directly from the send fx track through a little panel at the side. But there are also a few things that I am still missing in Bitwig and that I hope will be added.

[Tendou]

I had my Bitwig license for a year now and haven't opened Live since then. I work much faster in Bitwig.

how was the transition?

I tried the bitwig demo coming from live 10 and I was sloooow. moreover I felt somehow lost when I wanted to do similiar things like in live?

Interesting, how much time did you spend with it?

The biggest reason for the switch was that Live was just so annoyingly unstable. It crashed or froze quite often, took ages to load up and just didn't seem to run very well and I had lots of CPU spikes. I have no issues whatsoever with Bitwig, it runs so well on my system. This is the reason why I even tried it in the first place and this would be the number one reason why I don't even bother with Live currently. But that aside, I still much prefer working in Bitwig.

So, I personally found the transition super smooth. I mean it is quite similar, considering they are former Ableton devs that took a bunch of code with them. But I feel like it's a lot more intuitive and user friendly and the features appear to be very well integrated. To me, Bitwig seems more like a finished and polished product. I can do the things that I want to do very effectively. And also I think it looks better. But probably all this is also just personal preference.

I much prefer the modulation integration (compared to M4L). It makes me use and experiment with it much more. And it feels like it's actually supposed to work like that, even with third party vst, instead of in Live, where I always had the feeling I downloaded a "workaround". I barely even use the Grid, but it's so well done as well.. just little things like swapping out modules and keeping the routing and settings. Really well thought out.

The routing options are incredible. I can just chain an indefinite amount of midi fx onto the same track, while in Live I had to create multiple dedicated midi tracks to route into each other. And I can pretty much take or send audio and midi signals from anywhere to anywhere. I can even route to and from the individual output channels of a third party vst and put individual effects on each channel. And I can add all of the outputs with a click of a button. So I don't even need to bother with resampling or rerouting to multiple tracks for mixing, I can just mix right out the gate. So much faster and more user friendly.

I also love how easy and versatile it is to bounce tracks to audio, thanks to hybrid tracks (midi and audio on the same track). I can bounce to audio right there while leaving the plugin chain completely intact, instruments and all. It's less destructive and makes me "commit" to audio faster. And then I can just drag and drop the audio from within Bitwig into another vst in wave format without having to deal with the Live format. And with generated midi, I don't even need to "print" the midi first, I can just highlight the empty section on the track, bounce it and get the audio. No routing + resampling, just a couple of clicks.

I expected my hardware to not work as well in Bitwig (I mostly use a Launchpad and a Native Instruments S61, no Push) however the DrivenByMoss script made them on par if not better even. Also Bitwig has an actual mixer, where I can see and switch off / open all vst of all tracks at the same time. Reminds me much more to that of Logic and something I always missed in Live.

I think there are loads of other quality of life features that have improved my workflow that I always notice when using Bitwig. Little things, like being able to send to all the channels directly from the send fx track through a little panel at the side. But there are also a few things that I am still missing in Bitwig and that I hope will be added.

mhh probably I didnt give it enough time bc I just tried it for like 2 days. Maybe the clotted stock plugins intimitated me. Somehow I feel it is too crowded and not clean enough with the knobs :S

[homunculus]

I'd stick with Ableton Live just purely off of esthetics. I haven't fully switched to Bitwig yet just because its so fugly. Like how on earth did they decide on that on that Candy Corn Orange? Meanwhile their logo has a very beautiful red.

[Tektra]

I transitioned to Bitwig from a combination of Reaper and FL Studio. I also demoed and considered Ableton Live a few times throughout the years but subjectively it just never clicked for me.

I'm not crazy about some of the Bitwig audio FX devices (from a sound/workflow perspective) so I tend to use plugins for most of this stuff. It's not that Bitwig's audio FX devices are bad, it's just they're a little more granular by nature so you may need to piece a few of them together rather than using a single device. The devs seem to be putting more effort into devices that have a fast workflow for producers (such as the new Delay+), so this could change over time. In any case, this type of design isn't really a flaw, it just reflects the modular design philosophy behind the software.

Bitwig can also be very simple UI-wise and allows complexity to be neatly tucked away so it doesn't over-complicate the music making process if it isn't desired.

The one-click vs two-click criticism for note deletion is valid, I think. I never found this to be an issue but I understand how these micro-gestures can really impact how editing feels. Not sure if it's worth mentioning, but there is an eraser tool in bitwig that does allow for one-click deletion, but of course requires you to switch tools with your left hand (requiring some learning of hot-keys/etc.).

[Winstontaneous]

Try both, I have Live and Bitwig. I get a lot more stuff done in Live, its relatively limited featured set and slow development pace are pluses to me. For my way of working, Live's sampling/resampling and audio clip manipulation is superior to any other DAW I've used (well, I learned the workflow using AudioMulch).

Bitwig is ahead of pretty much everyone else with native modulation and MIDI note expression. While there is the Moss controller script for Ableton Push, it's not near as integrated as with Live.

[El°HYM]

For me the transition from Renoise to Live was pretty smooth, as there are some similarities with both. Ableton kind of seems optimized for quick workflow and I think that is still its main Advantage. I also still use Renoise once in a while, yet more like a Sampler or Loop - Generator; the Sequencer reminds me quite a Bit of my first one, which was an Akai - MPC 3000. Bitwig is an interesting Tool too but especially with the Workflow, Ableton might still be a slight Nudge in front, IMHO.

[Lectropunk aka influx808]

I tried most of DAWS , but I came back to ableton, bitwig is deadly but I find midi with ableton a lot faster other than that I wouldn't of sold bitwig, I tried the ableton live suite version demo for 2 months I couldn't afford it when the demo ended, so purchased intro version which I'm happy with it