Audio Interface Dilemma - need a solution!

[BertKoor]

Modern digital-analog converters nearly all have a flat frequency response, less than 0.1 dB different from the ideal.

That's a bold claim.
Can you provide a proof for that hypothesis?

OK, so I checked the Behringer Studio XL specifications:

Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz (±0.5 dB)

Yes, that's not what I expect these days... except from Behringer ofcourse, being so cheap.

But the SSL 2(+) quotes ± 0.1 dB.

[AdvancedFollower]

Modern digital-analog converters nearly all have a flat frequency response, less than 0.1 dB different from the ideal.

That's a bold claim.
Can you provide a proof for that hypothesis?

OK, so I checked the Behringer Studio XL specifications:

Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz (±0.5 dB)

Yes, that's not what I expect these days... except from Behringer ofcourse, being so cheap.

But the SSL 2(+) quotes ± 0.1 dB.

Amazona found the frequency response to be nearly completely flat. They found a small amount of harmonic distortion on the Mic inputs but well within tolerances. I don't think this would be enough to change the "sound profile" of the audio interface as OP puts it. I think something else is going on.
It's rare for raw recordings to immediately sound pleasant and sit perfectly in the mix, though. The usual solution is to apply EQ and other processing.

https://www.amazona.de/test-behringer-s ... ontroller/

[roman.i]

In a blind listening test, you won't be able to tell the difference...

OK, so I checked the Behringer Studio XL specifications...
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz (±0.5 dB)

Specs they provide are only a tip of an iceberg.
By taking one spec out of a context you can't conclude anything about how the audio interface will sound.
Looking at the given specs I can tell this interface is of the lowest quality(expected). For example THD 0.01% while my interface has 0.0005%, or the cross talk at -60db in comparison my interface crosstalk is at -135db.
Cumulative effects of many low quality components, including shielding and interference related stuff in the audio interface will produce a lower quality sound.
The only reliable source is a listening a/b test, not the pseudo-science claims.
Don't fall into this trap of claims you won't hear the difference, you will, and you will have to sell the crappy gear to get a better one.

[BertKoor]

@roman.i, you missed my other longer post on page 1?

[roman.i]

@roman.i, you missed my other longer post on page 1?

Yes, missed it

[1DMF]

Underpowered it surely is not. Misconfigured it can be!

I have seen very powerful computers that were not able to process audio in (near-)real-time without hick-ups and drop-outs. For example the GPU can be set to have highest priority for exclusive access to the PCI bus, and being granted to do so for say 10ms. That is great if you are playing games. But for audio it means that the CPU might have to wait until the GPU sets it's lock free. So it cannot fill an audio buffer in time, and hence you get drop-outs.

Try this tool: https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Fair enough, but I spent a couple of days with MOTU support tweaking everything from the GFX settings, device exclusivity, windows sound settings, USB host bus settings, BIOS update, Windows updates etc. etc.

I meticulously followed every step to ensure it wasn't a configuration / PC setting causing the problem.

I find it rather interesting I have a similar problem with the SPL device, that works perfectly when I run it without the device driver, but get crackles and pops when I do.

This is bugging me, because I absolutely love the SPL, I just remastered a track, I was able to tweak the EQ (tonal balance) with ease, no second guessing or putting up with uncomfortable frequencies while trying to find the sweet spot.

It took 2 blank CD's to get a perfect translation from studio to car, it can usually take me up to 20 blank CD's, a whole load of frustration including tinnitus pain and still not being fully satisfied with the result.

I've never had such a great sounding master, accomplished so quickly, that translates so beautifully.

Yet, I can't record anything via the line inputs without the device driver installed and the device doesn't work properly when it is.

[1DMF]

In a blind listening test, you won't be able to tell the difference...

OK, so I checked the Behringer Studio XL specifications...
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz (±0.5 dB)

Specs they provide are only a tip of an iceberg.
By taking one spec out of a context you can't conclude anything about how the audio interface will sound.
Looking at the given specs I can tell this interface is of the lowest quality(expected). For example THD 0.01% while my interface has 0.0005%, or the cross talk at -60db in comparison my interface crosstalk is at -135db.
Cumulative effects of many low quality components, including shielding and interference related stuff in the audio interface will produce a lower quality sound.
The only reliable source is a listening a/b test, not the pseudo-science claims.
Don't fall into this trap of claims you won't hear the difference, you will, and you will have to sell the crappy gear to get a better one.

I agree, it doesn't matter what the specs say or how expensive or cheap the device is, we all perceive sound (and light) differently, nothing will ever sound the same to you as it does me.

So even if two devices have exactly the same specs and components, they will still sound different to you than they will to me.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming I have super spidey senses that means I have better hearing than you, this SPD you would think is a super power making it easier to work with sound, only it isn't, it's a pain in the arse, because I can agonise over a track for days tweaking and desperately trying to eliminate an annoying frequency that usually has a detrimental affect to the overall sound and end up having to start all over again, and a lot of the time, no one else can hear what's annoying me anyway.

I've sent A/B masters to artists before for them to decide which one they prefer, and many times the response I have gotten back is "I can't hear any difference between them".

Yet there are some who actually see colour in sound, they really do have ESP in that regard, and it isn't something I experience.

Yes, my ASD does mean some sounds give me more pleasure than most experience, some sounds are so pleasantly stimulating, they make my hair stand on end, give me goose bumps and sends shivers down my spine, while others in contrast can have me covering my ears and running for cover.

All I know is the SPL Marc One to my ears sounds gorgeous, I can have it loud without it hurting or making my ears go into preservation mode where they shut down and produce a load of ear wax.

It has taken me years to realise some of the gear I've been using was fatiguing my ears really quickly putting them in shutdown and that in itself was causing bad EQ / mastering decisions as well as making my tinnitus worse.

Having replaced my Behringer Studio XL, which I only got because my Mackie Big Knob blew up and the Behringer is the only device with equivalent form factor. Though I now realise both are too bright and fatiguing.

The same with my DT990 Pro headphones, they are too bright and fatiguing, I much prefer the AKG 701k's.

Yes, a frequency can still be unpleasant on the SPL & 701k , but that's because it is, and is simply highlighting where work needs to be done.

For years I've been fighting the device sound profile trying to EQ away frequencies that were not track specific but inherent in the device, what a nightmare, no wonder I haven't been fully happy with the final master!

So while it is good advice to tell people to pick an audio device, monitor, headphone what ever, and learn its profile, and stick to it.

Encouraging people to not chase new and shiny, thinking their sound will get better if they just buy new more expensive equipment, is good advice, it is also important to learn when a device has a sound profile you don't like or is causing you to make bad choices when EQing / mixing.

As someone pointed out, it's not like we are talking professional studio equipment worth 10's of 1,000's of GBP / USD.

This is still home / enthusiasts equipment, so it's not going to sound like you have had a top notch engineer master your track at Abbey Road, however, if you find a device you like the sound profile of that enables you to make good choices when working on a track, you should be able to get close to that professional quality sound, without costing you an arm, a leg, your home and all your savings in the process.

[roman.i]

All I know is the SPL Marc One to my ears sounds gorgeous, I can have it loud without it hurting or making my ears go into preservation mode where they shut down and produce a load of ear wax.

I can give you a small tip for future upgrades.
Return this interface and get one with coax and/or aes/ebu connection.
If one day you decide to upgrade your monitors, and they will have a digital input, you will basically be able to pass the audio in the purest form possible to the monitors.

[rACatkvr]

I’m wondering why someone with a 6000 pound computer think a Babyface is out of their price range?

[1DMF]

I’m wondering why someone with a 6000 pound computer think a Babyface is out of their price range?

Coz I got it 2nd hand at less than half price

[BertKoor]

Try this tool: https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Fair enough, but I spent a couple of days [...]

So you still have not tried running that tool? It takes maybe 10 minutes of your time, you have absolutely nothing to lose (except perhaps a bit of pride to swallow)

The outcome is either green (problem is with the interface)
or red (problem is with config of your PC and it will give hints where about to look)
or amber (a bit of both)

[1DMF]

Try this tool: https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Fair enough, but I spent a couple of days [...]

So you still have not tried running that tool? It takes maybe 10 minutes of your time, you have absolutely nothing to lose (except perhaps a bit of pride to swallow)

The outcome is either green (problem is with the interface)
or red (problem is with config of your PC and it will give hints where about to look)
or amber (a bit of both)

Yes I've ran it and it says there is an issue with ACPI, even though I am not experiencing pops / crackles or audio drops when using the device currently.

The fixes all relate to changing power settings that don't exist, such as CPU throttling, with a section that says "In some cases, disabling the ACPI battery from within Device Manager also helps. That being said, it may disable the ability of the PC to charge the battery on a laptop."

So making OS changes that stop the battery charging is hardly a resolution.

I'm waiting on the expert device driver author @ SPL to help next week and hopefully will know more then.

[Uncle E]

The converter chips are mostly equal but the analog circuitry in the interfaces affects the sound. Quite frankly, the SPL's analog circuitry is probably sweetening/distorting the sound in some way but if it's helping you mix better, who cares? What it's doing may just be a better match with your speakers than those other interfaces.

[1DMF]

Well the MOTU and SPL sound noticeably less bright / harsh, what ever the reason.

Though I seem to have tracked down the latency culprit, it isn't ACPI, it's my NVIDIA GFX.

If I disable the GFX card in device manager, latency monitor reports no issues, only the onboard intel UHD GFX refuses to run my external monitor.

However, even with the GFX enabled and it showing nvlddmkm.sys having DPC issues, the SPL driver is now running without pops / crackles even with a sample rate of 256, which is very odd as I've never been able to run any device with such a low buffer?

I'm unsure why installing the SPL device driver while the GFX was disabled and then re-enabling the GFX has made a difference is beyond me.

However, I also disabled NVidia broadcast / High Definition Audio, so that might have something to do with it.

Though the fact SSL 2+ ran fine @ 24bit/192khz with all the NVIDIA stuff enabled and running, but other devices don't still implies not all device drivers are equal with some being much better than others.

What a nightmare, I just wish I could get my external monitor working when NVidia is disabled, it's not like I need to run an RTX3080Ti when playing music, nor should the GFX cause such audio issues!

[Uncle E]

256 is considered high by most people these days. A lot of people do 32. Anyway, glad it’s working out for you, now go make some music.