Audio Interface Dilemma - need a solution!

[1DMF]

Hi,

I have a Behringer Studio XL interface, which works fine, but I find it a little trebly with the highs a bit harsh and bright and fatigue my ears quickly.

So I bought a MOTU M2, and I love the sound it produces, but it just kept dropping audio and was unstable. I spent a load of time with MOTU support who were unable to resolve the issue and from what I can find on the internet, it's due to bad windows drivers, so I sent it back.

I did some research and decided to try the SSL 2+ , which worked flawlessly, only I didn't like the sound it produced and again found it a little bright / harsh on the highs, so sent that back.

I decided to push the boat out and spend a little more and get the SPL Marc One as I had always had my eye on a Crimson 3, and this new One series is meant to be its replacement.

However, when I installed the device driver, all I got was pops and crackles no matter what bit depth / sample rate I chose, it was awful.

So I uninstalled the device driver and allowed it to run using windows native audio driver and it works fine, other than not being able to go above 32bit / 192khz.

However, the recording loopback doesn't work, so anything I input thought Line 1 / Line 2 isn't being picked up for USB recording, which I assume is related to no device driver as I have set the dip switches on the back correctly.

I have a support ticket with SPL and await a response, but I get the feeling it again suffers from bad windows drivers and I will have to be sent back.

I love the sound it produces, but if it won't record any of the inputs and the device driver is unstable, its not fit for purpose.

Like I say I love the sound of the MOTU & SPL , they are just not fit for purpose on my windows machine, and the SSL 2+ works fine, but I don't like the sound profile.

So where do I go from here?

[BertKoor]

Sound harsh?

It's usually not your audio interface. Modern digital-analog converters nearly all have a flat frequency response, less than 0.1 dB different from the ideal. In a blind listening test, you won't be able to tell the difference.

The weak link in the chain is usually the monitors or headphones. I'd advice to upgrade these.

[chk071]

I'm also really surprised that you are able to hear the differences between audio interfaces... As BertKoor mentioned, they're all very good (i.e. flat) these days. If anything, there are differences in noise level. But, even with that, they're all high quality, and that will be neglectable.

[1DMF]

Well I have SPD so that doesn't help.

So yes, to me the SSL 2+ has unpleasant trebles, as does the Behringer Studio XL, where as the MOTO M2 and SPL Marc One is for me much more pleasant to the ear.

The fact I can test a device and go :- like that, don't like that, like that, implies I can decern a difference between the devices in terms of the sound profile.

Whether that is monitor dependant and the way each device drives them is beyond my expertise.

I have IK multimedia iLoud MTM monitors - calibrated, is that likely to be the cause of the discrepancy in sound I hear between devices?

My headphones are AKG 701k's replacing my Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro because I found them too bright and fatiguing.

I can hear 1,000th of a Q when working with FabFilter Pro Q as well as 100th of a decibel in volume change, and that's even when using my JVC party speakers via Bluetooth, so it's unlikely to be the monitor that is creating the audio difference.

Either way, the issue I am facing is functionality / windows drivers, I have found devices I like the sound of, they just don't work properly.

I was hoping someone might be able to advise on a device that sounds similar to MOTU / SPL , but if others can't hear the difference between MOTU & SSL 2+, then it looks like I'm on my own when it comes to finding my perfect audio interface.

[roman.i]

I'm joining the comments above, never heard a "harsh" or "bright" audio interfaces.
They are usually somewhere in between clear and muffled, but not harsh.
My guess what you are hearing is a dirty electricity, and some interfaces clean it better than others.
I had that issue when added a SPD device with noise suppression, and that had exactly the opposite effect. So I had to remove it.
SPL are known for their high end electronic parts, so that makes sense they produce a clean sound.
It is strange you have so many issues with the drivers, maybe you have a crappy power supply or/and motherboard and this has nothing to do with the interface?
Beyerdynamic headphones are indeed harsh and fatiguing.

[BertKoor]

There can be something else going on here...

Some audio devices work internally at one fixed sampling rate and the driver resamples to that from whatever it gets from the application or OS. Any resampling is questionable: good, mediocre... you never really know.

Can it be source of harshness? Perhaps, but more often it takes away some brightness. It's also possible you actually like the sound of mediocre resampling.

If you use "native" windows mode (wdm driver) then you're at the mercy of the Windows audio system, which has several SoundGoodizers™ you need to know where and how to disable. Using an ASIO driver will bypass that all.

But you said you had cracks & pops. That leans to me thinking your PC is not optimised or even suitable for real time audio. Especially on Windows this can be a hard problem to solve. Run a latency monitor (resplendence?) to get some hints. Sometimes the wifi or gpu driver gets in the way of getting good performance for audio.

You should also know that eg MOTU interfaces work excellent on Mac. Their windows drivers are not so good, and you need a perfectly configured pc (or sheer luck) for them to work good.

If you are convinced your cans & monitors are perfect / good enough, then there's only one brand of interface guaranteed to satisfy you: RME. Rock solid drivers, excellent transparent audio performance. If you find these harsh, then you like slightly muffled.

Or get the MOTU interface and switch to Mac. That combination is good.

[kritikon]

Something wrong with the pc. No way all of those interface drivers are corrupt and as Bert said - crackles & pops immediately on setup is not your interface or ASIO drivers (are you even using the ASIO interface drivers? If not, why not?). Those converters just don't sound different. And...DT990pro bright and harsh? I use them and they're the complete opposite, more like bass emphasized and quite noticeably so, to the point that they're really not suitable for mixing. I like them for various other reasons, but they are not bright at all. The whole thing screams out to sort out your pc/setup before throwing more money on interfaces, which are almost certainly NOT the problem.

[rod_zero]

If you want good drivers, long support and stability on windows go RME.

As for the sound, maybe if you run some serious blind tests to show yourself the difference in sound isn't that real, or just EQ put an EQ on the master and lower the highs.

Have you taken a frequency range hearing test? how high can you hear?

[zerocrossing]

I’ve owned MOTU, RME and UAD. They all sound good to me, and I’ve used them all on a PC with a FireWire card, though the reason I moved from MOTU was that the drivers stopped working well, but it was old anyway. I think if I were starting from zero at this point, I’d probably buy another RME. The Apollo is fine. I like the software and the plugins sound good, but native plugins have gotten so good, and CPUs so fast, that the extra DSP isn’t really necessary.

[1DMF]

I have a Dell Precision 7770 with i9-12950HX, 64GB ram, 4K UHD, GTX3080Ti GFX, 2 x 2TB SSD, thunderbolt & USB C worth over £6,000.00, so I doubt it is the PC unable to run the device.

I was thinking RME or TASCAM next, but the Baby-Face is out of my budget

"Have you taken a frequency range hearing test? how high can you hear?" - Yes, but SPD has nothing to do with high frequency.

If you have to cover your ears when a fire alarm goes off or when emergency services pass you with their sirens blaring, then you might have some appreciation of it being relative to certain sounds / frequencies. A police siren is not 20KHZ, it's less than 1KHZ.

Anyone who thinks it's the PC is just simply ignorant to spectrum conditions and auditory processing issues, if you can't hear a difference, good for you, I can whether you believe it or not.

Every device I have tried has a different sound profile, what I find astonishing is the number of people commenting that don't hear the difference.

Also, as the SSL 2+ device driver ran fine, as does the Behringer and the SPL works fine without the device driver (other than loopback recording), it is only the device driver causing the pops and clicks, let alone the fact the internet is awash with people having issues with the MOTU drivers (a simple google shows this to be a fact), it is therefore far more likely it being the device driver than my PC.

At least zerocrossing confirms driver problems with MOTU, I guess their PC must suck too eh?

Hey Ho, I'll just have to keep trying interfaces till I find one I like and that works, that is in my price range.

[roman.i]

Ah, so you are a high end stuff geek, with the laptop "worth over £6,000.00".
I just want to enlighten you, you are dealing with toy audio gear but expecting it to behave like you in a million dollar mastering studio. This is ridiculous.
Don't be a cheapskate, RME is the bare minimum for what you are expecting from an audio interface.

[1DMF]

That's a weird comment, who said I was expecting it to behave like $1M studio, I was just expecting it to work?

Me hearing audible differences between devices has nothing to do with how much they cost?

Not sure I'm a high end geek, or if I should thank you for the compliment. I was simply highlighting the fact that due to my computer specs, it's unlikely to be the underpowered weak link in the chain or a bottleneck that is causing the problem.

I'm currently working on a remaster using the SPL Marc One and I am loving it, it sounds great and I think (yet to do translation testing), it's helping me make better judgements when EQing.

Just waiting on SPL support to respond to my ticket, and hope they can help resolve the input recording / driver issue, if not I will have no choice but to send the item back, which I will be sad about.

[BertKoor]

I was simply highlighting the fact that due to my computer specs, it's unlikely to be the underpowered weak link in the chain or a bottleneck that is causing the problem.

Underpowered it surely is not. Misconfigured it can be!

I have seen very powerful computers that were not able to process audio in (near-)real-time without hick-ups and drop-outs. For example the GPU can be set to have highest priority for exclusive access to the PCI bus, and being granted to do so for say 10ms. That is great if you are playing games. But for audio it means that the CPU might have to wait until the GPU sets it's lock free. So it cannot fill an audio buffer in time, and hence you get drop-outs.

Try this tool: https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

[roman.i]

It's usually not your audio interface. Modern digital-analog converters nearly all have a flat frequency response, less than 0.1 dB different from the ideal. In a blind listening test, you won't be able to tell the difference.

That's a bold claim.
Can you provide a proof for that hypothesis?

[zerocrossing]

At least zerocrossing confirms driver problems with MOTU, I guess their PC must suck too eh?

That was a long time ago with a pair of 828s that had served me well for years, first on a Mac, then later on PCs. I wouldn’t base my experience on modern MOTU interfaces. I have no idea what they are like.