Are there any serialists out there?
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
John Taverner is another one who springs to mind. Some of his more experimental stuff in the 60s is very much aligned with the possibilies of today's technology.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
As I recall, Arnold Schoenberg felt drawn to atonality by the exigencies of expression. He was part of that whole viennese expressionist thing, with Klimt and Kokoschka and all the rest, and he did some really interesting expressionist paintings.
But Arnold was also a teacher, and his expertise was the music of great austro-germanic composers from Bach to Wagner.
He never taught serialism (or, as he insisted on calling it:"The method of composing with twelve tones"), because as he said to his students: "there is still a lot of good music yet to be written in C major"
And so Serialism was really at first just Arnold's way of incorporating his beloved austro-german traditions into his fiercely original compositions. What it became later had a life of its own.
Neither he, nor Webern, nor Berg, ever had anything to do with 'total' serialism.
But Arnold was also a teacher, and his expertise was the music of great austro-germanic composers from Bach to Wagner.
He never taught serialism (or, as he insisted on calling it:"The method of composing with twelve tones"), because as he said to his students: "there is still a lot of good music yet to be written in C major"
And so Serialism was really at first just Arnold's way of incorporating his beloved austro-german traditions into his fiercely original compositions. What it became later had a life of its own.
Neither he, nor Webern, nor Berg, ever had anything to do with 'total' serialism.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
No, you're right herodotus, total serialism was the logical extension of Webern/Berg/Schoenberg's work taken up by others after the war. The Second Vienesse School were indeed expressionist composersand not particularly interested in 'systems for system's sake'.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
TechNoiZ, I would be interested in hearing any of your work. You too Shane.
Please pm me if you can get around to it.
Its great to talk to others who have some interest in this stuff.
"The present day composer refuses to die"
Edgard Varese.
Please pm me if you can get around to it.
Its great to talk to others who have some interest in this stuff.
"The present day composer refuses to die"
Edgard Varese.
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
sent you both PMs. Enjoy.
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
In the course of sifting through this old box of cassettes here, I just found a long lost copy of William Kraft's "Cadenz". I'll be drifting off to sleep to that I think... good night....
Last edited by Shane Sanders on Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Shane, I will buy The Jelly Fish Emperor as soon as my wife tells me I can. (I am listening to the mp3 as I write this.) It reminds me of Wourinen, but it is recorded much better. Really interesting stuff. Lots of life in it for something so obviously synthetic. Well done.
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
oh, before I sleep, I must mention Luigi Nono. A killer atonalist who also loved silence. I have a bunch of his stuff on CD. I think he married Schoenberg's daughter.
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
2 Examples of good old fashioned orchestral serialism - i've heard a couple of them performed live, but these are, i'm afraid, just my own reference rendition using Edirol Orchestral.
1. Music for Strings and Reeds : http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/Music_fo ... _Reeds.mp3
2. DNA [for 2 saxophones]: http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/DNA.mp3
An example of free atonality.
3 Cursed : http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/Cursed.mp3
A free form 6 part round with passacaglia bass.
4. The Fine Art of Repetition : http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/The_Fine ... tition.mp3
Not really typical KVR material - but there ya go anyway
1. Music for Strings and Reeds : http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/Music_fo ... _Reeds.mp3
2. DNA [for 2 saxophones]: http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/DNA.mp3
An example of free atonality.
3 Cursed : http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/Cursed.mp3
A free form 6 part round with passacaglia bass.
4. The Fine Art of Repetition : http://www.technoiz.co.uk/trax/The_Fine ... tition.mp3
Not really typical KVR material - but there ya go anyway
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Voidoid Surrealist Voidoid Surrealist https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=41079
- KVRAF
- 4048 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Places far less tedious than this blue trainwreck...
Wow, thanks TechNoiZ!
I especialy enjoyed Music for String and Reeds, even without the real orchestra, it's still very effective. That delicate tone at 1:57 was a perfect exit. DNA was nice too, I can only imagine how great it would sound in the hands a real sax player.
Cursed , despite being so short was VERY rich. The Fine Art of Repetition
was quite a pleasant suprise, too. Reminds me quite a bit of Glass...
Perhaps some tarnce-a-crunker will accidentaly stumble upon those and expand their horizons
Anyway, I've found quite a few good reecomendations from
this guy's amazon lists , he's got 61 lists, many of which are quite helpfull if you want to get into Nono, Ligeti, or other Moderns.
I especialy enjoyed Music for String and Reeds, even without the real orchestra, it's still very effective. That delicate tone at 1:57 was a perfect exit. DNA was nice too, I can only imagine how great it would sound in the hands a real sax player.
Cursed , despite being so short was VERY rich. The Fine Art of Repetition
was quite a pleasant suprise, too. Reminds me quite a bit of Glass...
Perhaps some tarnce-a-crunker will accidentaly stumble upon those and expand their horizons
Anyway, I've found quite a few good reecomendations from
this guy's amazon lists , he's got 61 lists, many of which are quite helpfull if you want to get into Nono, Ligeti, or other Moderns.
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- KVRAF
- 3125 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia
hi
some of the Schoenberg's vocal works are frighening, not an easy listening by far.
From the period I'd prefer Stravinsky (but that's OT here).
k
some of the Schoenberg's vocal works are frighening, not an easy listening by far.
From the period I'd prefer Stravinsky (but that's OT here).
k
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Voidoid Surrealist Voidoid Surrealist https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=41079
- KVRAF
- 4048 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Places far less tedious than this blue trainwreck...
Almost forgot. If anyone reading this thread hasn't heard Webern before, and wants to know what he's all about, stop by antonwebern.com and download a few mp3s and read his bio. There's a few short (but complete) tracks to listen to there.
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- KVRAF
- 37448 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Webern is a big influence on me though I wouldn't claim to use serial methods in my music some of my pieces (like Bagatelles) it comes across in places as does setting myself rules. I'm also into Schonberg, Berg and many of their influences such as Zemlinsky (who you don't hear enough of these days).
Penderecki and Ligeti are also favorites of mine. So are Bartok and Ives (also should be given more credit - genius). Not so keen on Glass (small doses - Akhnaton is good).
Penderecki and Ligeti are also favorites of mine. So are Bartok and Ives (also should be given more credit - genius). Not so keen on Glass (small doses - Akhnaton is good).