I ask out of curiosity. I was never able to work within the dodecaphonic system myself, but I have always admired those who did.
And Webern totally rules!!!
Are there any serialists out there?
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
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- Banned
- 590 posts since 20 Jan, 2003
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Thanks for the interesting link.
But I have to say, it made me kind of mad. Here is the deal. Arnold Schoenberg, Weberns teacher and mentor, WAS A JEW!! His most ambitious work, unfinished at his death, was called MOSES AND AARON!! His most famous and frequently performed work is called A SURVIVOR FROM WARSAW. (Warsaw ghetto that is.)
Somehow this was overlooked?!?!?
Okay, I admit it, I am now really pissed. PHILLIP GLASS is just going along with this!!!
Please PLEASE don't believe this tripe. Go listen to 'A Survivor from Warsaw'
It will change You.
And not into a Nazi.
But I have to say, it made me kind of mad. Here is the deal. Arnold Schoenberg, Weberns teacher and mentor, WAS A JEW!! His most ambitious work, unfinished at his death, was called MOSES AND AARON!! His most famous and frequently performed work is called A SURVIVOR FROM WARSAW. (Warsaw ghetto that is.)
Somehow this was overlooked?!?!?
Okay, I admit it, I am now really pissed. PHILLIP GLASS is just going along with this!!!
Please PLEASE don't believe this tripe. Go listen to 'A Survivor from Warsaw'
It will change You.
And not into a Nazi.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
I used to compose using serialism but not for a while. My post on counterpoint was related to this as it struck me that a complex form of integral serialism applied to the CC parameters available within a particular synth would yield some interesting results but they would need to be made more comprehensible through the use of voiceleading and counterpoint - which of course has more to offer than just the writing of fugues - otherwise the resultant music would sound like random ambient doodling [which is fine ... but not the point of serialism].
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Have you ever heard Milton Babbit's "Vision and Prayer"?
Really early electronic music. Made at the Columbia Princeton Electronic Music Center.
I have no idea what they had for Synths, But I do know that all of their programming was done with punch cards. Talk about a clunky GUI!
In any case, Babbit was a hardcore serialist if ever there was one.So perhaps this work would apply to what You were talking about.
Really early electronic music. Made at the Columbia Princeton Electronic Music Center.
I have no idea what they had for Synths, But I do know that all of their programming was done with punch cards. Talk about a clunky GUI!
In any case, Babbit was a hardcore serialist if ever there was one.So perhaps this work would apply to what You were talking about.
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
I know of Babbit but avoided analysing his music at uni - I spent my time on Webern - the real artistic force behind the Second Vienesse School.
I tried a bit of serialist work yesterday following discussions on a couple of threads on this site - I'll see how it goes ....
I tried a bit of serialist work yesterday following discussions on a couple of threads on this site - I'll see how it goes ....
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
I'm fortunate to own performances of some of the best from the twelve-tone composers. Webern is my favorite among them.
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
If I recall correctly, old Milton B. was a total serialist, having applied formulas to every aspect of each note, including duration and dynamics. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, but some of his work makes interesting listening in small doses.
Last edited by Shane Sanders on Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
Re; Webern
Yeah, you can get his entire output on 3 CDs. Well worth a listen, although his music has been so ripped off now that it sounds a bit like bad Hollywood/Hammer film music. It must have been awesome to hear when it was originally composed.
Re; MB
Total serialism/integral serialism is too much for me - its the 'randomise' function of the 1950s. You usually only have to select the initial row and the musical parameters for the entire piece of music are then set from this.
A triumph for Form over Content methinks ...
Yeah, you can get his entire output on 3 CDs. Well worth a listen, although his music has been so ripped off now that it sounds a bit like bad Hollywood/Hammer film music. It must have been awesome to hear when it was originally composed.
Re; MB
Total serialism/integral serialism is too much for me - its the 'randomise' function of the 1950s. You usually only have to select the initial row and the musical parameters for the entire piece of music are then set from this.
A triumph for Form over Content methinks ...
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
Much of my output is freely atonal, which is a whole different bag. I enjoy drones that rub up against more disturbing note clusters.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
Yeah, if you listen to Webern's opus 5 in the dark with headphones it can be positively eerie.
Everything the guy did was so precious and unique.
And do You know the poor bastard NEVER EVEN HEARD some of his best stuff.
I really wish that I could go back in time and give the guy a good DAW setup with a copy of GPO.
The things he could have done.
Everything the guy did was so precious and unique.
And do You know the poor bastard NEVER EVEN HEARD some of his best stuff.
I really wish that I could go back in time and give the guy a good DAW setup with a copy of GPO.
The things he could have done.
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
I think the point of serialism was to ensure a backdrop of pure atonality - without it the composer may, subconsciously, create a centre of tonality without realising it. The equal distribution and use of all 12 pitches goes a long way towards counteracting this favouritism although tonal centres can still be forged. They do not happen accidently.
Check out the work of Berg. Seemingly tonal but actually very, very serial.
Check out the work of Berg. Seemingly tonal but actually very, very serial.
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- KVRist
- 142 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Location: Location:
I did a massive analysis of some of Op 5 a few years ago .... best bit of work i ever did. Its a fascinating composition - and almost proof-positive of man's ability to gather, organise and recall abstract information through sound structures alone.
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- KVRAF
- 4216 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
Yeah, I have several of Berg's works on cassette. I used to make tons of requests throughout the day on a classical show in Knoxville, then turn loose a hi-fi VHS tape to record for eight hours. Got a lot of stuff during those days.TechNoiZ wrote:I think the point of serialism was to ensure a backdrop of pure atonality - without it the composer may, subconsciously, create a centre of tonality without realising it. The equal distribution and use of all 12 pitches goes a long way towards counteracting this favouritism although tonal centres can still be forged. They do not happen accidently.
Check out the work of Berg. Seemingly tonal but actually very, very serial.
Donald Erb is a good composer. Some of Penderecki's stuff is great, too, some of it 12-tone, some of it freely atonal. I used to have the St. Luke's Passion on CD but loaned it and never got it back. That's a deep atonal piece, and perfectly suits the subject matter. When Jesus sings, "Pater" in that piece, you know you're in for some scary stuff...