the thing is, the average listener will not have decent equipment... a good solution to this problem might be to have two versions of a cd, one for good systems and one with the volume turned up.platinumears wrote:This is a problem with your equipment, not the recording: If your headphones are half decent and properly matched to the impedance of the amp, they should easily go loud enough to give you permanent hearing damage!!jtxx000 wrote:no, this is on crappy old headphones on a bus. To get it loud enough to drown everyone out i have to turn it up all the way, but i hear distortion of some kind after i turn past 8.5 in the cd player (it sounds like a harmonic exciter). So at level 8.5 tales from topographic oceans (yes) isn't loud enough, but meteora (linkin park) is.
From Tracktion to CD
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
..and another one with extra bass for tinny systems, and yet another with less bass for boomy systems..
how about a dull version for garishly coloured kids ghetto blasters?
Bollocks my friend! If your system is crap, get a better one, don't expect a mastering engineer to do special versions for it!
how about a dull version for garishly coloured kids ghetto blasters?
Bollocks my friend! If your system is crap, get a better one, don't expect a mastering engineer to do special versions for it!
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Oh, and its also bollocks to think that compressing a mix will make it better for small systems: if anything you need to do the opposite as a crap system will already be failing to represent your dynamics accurately.. you need to emphasise them, not remove them completely!
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
eh, good point... maybe i don't know what you're talking about, can you give an example of a cd that's been over compressed/limited?platinumears wrote:..and another one with extra bass for tinny systems, and yet another with less bass for boomy systems..
how about a dull version for garishly coloured kids ghetto blasters?
Bollocks my friend! If your system is crap, get a better one, don't expect a mastering engineer to do special versions for it!
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- KVRist
- 212 posts since 23 Feb, 2003 from Charlotte, VT
Just to clarify...
Personally I believe in the whole Bob Katz let it breathe and have lots of dynamics thing; that's what sounds right to me, I just love his work. I don't use a limiter at all and don't like a squashed sound. But the question was about impressing people and because CDs are mastered so loud I just wanted to make the point that it's necessary to be aware of that Consumer Expectation.
Personally I believe in the whole Bob Katz let it breathe and have lots of dynamics thing; that's what sounds right to me, I just love his work. I don't use a limiter at all and don't like a squashed sound. But the question was about impressing people and because CDs are mastered so loud I just wanted to make the point that it's necessary to be aware of that Consumer Expectation.
Pythagorean perennialist.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Unfortunately, most modern releases have been squashed pretty hard.. try looking at a variety of modern tracks in an audio editor, and compare them to some classic 70's recordings..jtxx000 wrote:can you give an example of a cd that's been over compressed/limited?
I can give you an example of one that hasn't: I recently bought a Muddy Waters boxed set consisting of a re-mastered version of Muddy "Mississippi" Waters Live (classic late 70's album) and a second CD of unreleased tracks from the same two gigs.
When I listen to it on my monitors I have to turn the gain up several db higher than with a typical modern release to get the same apparent volume.. but it sounds bloody fantastic, and as a result I usually end up cranking it up much higher, shutting my eyes, and imagining I'm there!
The really important point is, I still want to turn it up when I play it on the shit little £15 ghetto blaster I keep in my bedroom!
I don't believe most consumers are aware of absolute gain levels when they play a CD.. typical volume controls certainly aren't calibrated in db! A normal listner will set the volume level by ear when first pressing play, and isn't likely to worry about anything other than "is it too loud / loud enough?" and "am I disturbing the neighbours?"gizmo wrote:But the question was about impressing people and because CDs are mastered so loud I just wanted to make the point that it's necessary to be aware of that Consumer Expectation.
The only time that really becomes a problem is if your track appears on a compilation, on which all the other tracks have been over-compressed. Of course, a properly made compilation will have been mastered as a whole to avoid this type of level mis-match.. but failing that, I would still rather be relatively quiet and sound good, than kill my mix!
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 25 Jan, 2005
G'day again,
I like all the passion about sound quality out there. D-Fusion's comment helped. I was exporting out as a .wav file using the 'normalise' facility which I gather flattens everything a little. I tried exporting again without any normalisation or compression and was a lot happier with the results. By the way, I found the new 'Final Mix' plug-in helped.
BTW, I didn't think this topic would engender such debate. It's great. The crack about impressing my friends was a bit of a joke. The kind of music I'm writing is unlikely to have many fans. I might take CinningBao's comment on board and post some of my stuff up when I have the guts to do it (sort of like exposing your jugular isn't it).
I think just about all the comments so far have given me something to think about.
As for my other question about the Mackie 'Spike' system. I have been thinking long and hard about buying it and was wondering if anyone else has tried it and whether it was worth it.
Regards,
MW.
I like all the passion about sound quality out there. D-Fusion's comment helped. I was exporting out as a .wav file using the 'normalise' facility which I gather flattens everything a little. I tried exporting again without any normalisation or compression and was a lot happier with the results. By the way, I found the new 'Final Mix' plug-in helped.
BTW, I didn't think this topic would engender such debate. It's great. The crack about impressing my friends was a bit of a joke. The kind of music I'm writing is unlikely to have many fans. I might take CinningBao's comment on board and post some of my stuff up when I have the guts to do it (sort of like exposing your jugular isn't it).
I think just about all the comments so far have given me something to think about.
As for my other question about the Mackie 'Spike' system. I have been thinking long and hard about buying it and was wondering if anyone else has tried it and whether it was worth it.
Regards,
MW.