Streaming Video Tutorials - What is your Preferred Format?
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
(I also dislike RealPlayer btw...)
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
yes, dystonia! And there are *many* other great examples like that on the Web. More and more... In E-Learning, in Webinars, in business presentations.
PS I checked your website
and realized that you MUST know a lot about Flash. Cool!
PS I checked your website
and realized that you MUST know a lot about Flash. Cool!-
- KVRist
- 297 posts since 30 Dec, 2003 from Denmark
I agree with Sickle that RealPlayer is horrible. It's bloated and the free version is heavily limited in image/sound quality.Ben [KVR] wrote:Is your objection to real media to do with the format or the bloated player? (Which I think QuickTime also suffers from).
Incidentally (anyone), are Windows Media files easily readable on Macs (via iTunes I guess)?
However, I don't see how Quicktime could be considered bloated? I must admit I think it has proven to be a very well performing and efficient format/player...hmmm. Maybe I'm just used to it.
I don't have any particular preference to streaming media (other than against real player). I think it might be even more important to look closer at the codec's availble for the various formats. I'm no expert on the subject but there are codecs directly optimized for screen content, and that might speak for formats other than MPG which is propably otherwise the most well known.
Cheers,Rune
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- Mr KVR
- Topic Starter
- 1588 posts since 23 Oct, 2000 from UK
- KVR Audio
Last time I contemplated downloading Quicktime for Windows Apple tried to force me to also download iTunes, which I didn't want... I see they now allow you to download just Quicktime for older versions of Windows, which I gues iTunes doesn't run on. I assume this will install on XP (I haven't tried).rune_lh wrote:However, I don't see how Quicktime could be considered bloated? I must admit I think it has proven to be a very well performing and efficient format/player...hmmm. Maybe I'm just used to it.
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- KVRAF
- 7879 posts since 16 Apr, 2003 from -on the outside looking in
Yes, yes and hell yes.Ben [KVR] wrote:Is your objection to real media to do with the format or the bloated player? (Which I think QuickTime also suffers from).
I won't use either of those. It is frustrating to have your system hijacked.
Voted .mpeg but flash stuff is ok, too. The FL Studio website has been using flash video tutorial recently if anyone wants to check it out.
..what goes around comes around..
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- KVRist
- 368 posts since 3 May, 2002 from Canberra, Australia
I voted Flash but I'd be happy with mpeg, too. I would object quite strongly to Real as I hate their nasty spying POS player.
Will the streaming video be dial-up friendly or is that hoping for too much?
-s
Will the streaming video be dial-up friendly or is that hoping for too much?
-s
A suffusion of yellow...
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
If you are interested, let me talk a little more about the advantages of Flash for online tutorials. Video, animation, photos, music, voiceovers, subtitles (even in selectable languages if needed), and interactive controls such as buttons and links are all easily inserted into Flash movies. Each scene can have additional layers that can hold additional information or user controls. You can make a Flash movie part-screen or full-screen or resizable, and you could put it anywhere on a site in any shape (yes!) and size, all with good quality and with perfectly synchronized audio streaming.
Many people would agree that they prefer to learn with interactivity, rather than by just watching a video (pretty dull).
Interactivity in a Flash movie can go *far* beyond all limits of traditional video formats and far beyond a slideshow or a talking brochure or a simple instructional video. Due to its special possibilities that other formats simply do not have, Flash may well be the online video format of the future! After all, the Internet is an interactive medium.
Interactivity in a Flash movie is accomplished using a coding language called "Actionscript", which is not hard to learn (I would say about as difficult as PHP5 but far easier than C#).
Some actions are simple, such as integrating "buttons" in the video: Mouse click a button, and something happens. For example: Show a Tracktion (sequencer program) screen and let the user click on e.g. the rack filter button, and then a special short video for that specific learning sector begins to play in a smaller video frame that's still part of the same browser window. Or, if the user clicks on the MIDI editor area, it is zoomed in (shown bigger) and a voice tells you what is happening in there, while you see animations of Tracktion elements being operated and moved around. Or take an instructional movie and structure it by individual sections, then make a simple navigation menu for it. Users can navigate through the tutorial according to their own learning speed, instead of just sitting there and watch it till the end (yawn, yawn).
Or, as a special offering, allow your users to insert their own "learning notes" in a simple text field beneath the video. Such information can actually be stored for that user so he can see (and update) his own notes when he checks the online tutorial the next time.
These are all examples of interactivity that are rather easily integrated into a tutorial for a software package. Other actions can be very complicated (think of a tutorial that pauses to let you enter some figures and immediately calculates and shows some results - you could integrate a nerdy online calculator that gives you the days until the T2 software release based on the average population of groundhogs in your area...*g*)
Let's go one step further and imagine what can *really* be done, and turn a simple video concept into an experiential learning environment: The tutorial shows the Tracktion interface, in the upper left corner you see our beloved Chief Tracktioneer Jules standing there and talking to you face to face (while he's getting a haircut *g*) and the tutorial explains some basic Tracktion operations, one step after the other. After a while, the tut pauses, and you are asked to try something for yourself! The narrator says: "drag that filter from track five to track sixteen and see what happens". So the user drags that element with the mouse, and the whole "interface simulation" actually reacts and moves. This is so easily done with Flash. So the user drags that filter and sees it move, and *other* parts of the interface react to it and change their status. Now, here's where it gets interesting: The tutorial can also give an immediate "user feedback", for example: "you did it wrong don't put the rack filter connector there but right here" and there is a blinking indicator showing where the user should put it. - Excuse my English by the way, I am just trying to make you see what can be and is being done with Flash in terms of interactive learning. Such things are done by more and more firms; the users love it. The learning effect is so much stronger than just watching a video being played through. Yes, all this requires development work, but other producers are already doing it and it's possible.
I have a feeling that if Mackie wants to invest in such "interactive" tuts to help Tracktion become more popular, this form of tutorials might even create an additional argument versus the competing hosts and make the customers say one day: "oh yeah Cubase is cool - but Tracktion has the coolest tutorials!"
Flash does have a significant learning curve for the more elaborate stuff, but it's not out of reach for instructional designers and developers.
To create online audio-visual streaming content, the easiest method is of course to make the video in MPEG format (high compression and small files) or WindowsMedia (bad for Mac users) or QT (not installed by too many users) or with RealProducer (but many users dislike Realplayer and other nasty plugins) or even Vivo (not often installed) and alternative video formats. All these formats basically require only *one* development step to make them. With "FLV" (= Flash Video), there are more development steps: First import the video into Flash (I usually recommend SwishVideo for best quality), then add layers with other content (e.g. interactive chapter navigation and buttons and links which are to be *programmed* with a bit of Actionscript code), and then embed the Flash video into the desired environment (usually a HTML web page or a full-screen Flash page).
Here's some interesting info from Vitalstream. It also shows that the Flash player is installed in far more Internet user systems than *any* other browser plugins (such as Real): http://www.vitalstream.com/macromedia/index.html
So... if you want to reach most users with your video tuts and give them the best experience and learning result, the possibilities are right there. Imagine the CD's you can buy with interactive multimedia presentations in them, you can make the same online. And you can have a concept driven by style and aesthetics, since you have full control over all aspects of the presentation. On a side note, when my clients ask me to develop animated Flash "intros" for their new websites, I often advise them not to do it: Flash has been totally over-used in the past years. Many of us hate the stupid intros on too many websites and we skip them. But... in one field, and this happens to be interactive tutorials, Flash gives the best result and coolest user experience.
Ah well, probably all this is just wishful thinking. So if you give me MPEG's, I'll also be happy with them. - Probably!
Greg
(- I wrote this from the perspective of a "Tracktion" sequencer user and assumed that everybody here knows what it is)
Many people would agree that they prefer to learn with interactivity, rather than by just watching a video (pretty dull).
Interactivity in a Flash movie can go *far* beyond all limits of traditional video formats and far beyond a slideshow or a talking brochure or a simple instructional video. Due to its special possibilities that other formats simply do not have, Flash may well be the online video format of the future! After all, the Internet is an interactive medium.
Interactivity in a Flash movie is accomplished using a coding language called "Actionscript", which is not hard to learn (I would say about as difficult as PHP5 but far easier than C#).
Some actions are simple, such as integrating "buttons" in the video: Mouse click a button, and something happens. For example: Show a Tracktion (sequencer program) screen and let the user click on e.g. the rack filter button, and then a special short video for that specific learning sector begins to play in a smaller video frame that's still part of the same browser window. Or, if the user clicks on the MIDI editor area, it is zoomed in (shown bigger) and a voice tells you what is happening in there, while you see animations of Tracktion elements being operated and moved around. Or take an instructional movie and structure it by individual sections, then make a simple navigation menu for it. Users can navigate through the tutorial according to their own learning speed, instead of just sitting there and watch it till the end (yawn, yawn).
Or, as a special offering, allow your users to insert their own "learning notes" in a simple text field beneath the video. Such information can actually be stored for that user so he can see (and update) his own notes when he checks the online tutorial the next time.
These are all examples of interactivity that are rather easily integrated into a tutorial for a software package. Other actions can be very complicated (think of a tutorial that pauses to let you enter some figures and immediately calculates and shows some results - you could integrate a nerdy online calculator that gives you the days until the T2 software release based on the average population of groundhogs in your area...*g*)
Let's go one step further and imagine what can *really* be done, and turn a simple video concept into an experiential learning environment: The tutorial shows the Tracktion interface, in the upper left corner you see our beloved Chief Tracktioneer Jules standing there and talking to you face to face (while he's getting a haircut *g*) and the tutorial explains some basic Tracktion operations, one step after the other. After a while, the tut pauses, and you are asked to try something for yourself! The narrator says: "drag that filter from track five to track sixteen and see what happens". So the user drags that element with the mouse, and the whole "interface simulation" actually reacts and moves. This is so easily done with Flash. So the user drags that filter and sees it move, and *other* parts of the interface react to it and change their status. Now, here's where it gets interesting: The tutorial can also give an immediate "user feedback", for example: "you did it wrong don't put the rack filter connector there but right here" and there is a blinking indicator showing where the user should put it. - Excuse my English by the way, I am just trying to make you see what can be and is being done with Flash in terms of interactive learning. Such things are done by more and more firms; the users love it. The learning effect is so much stronger than just watching a video being played through. Yes, all this requires development work, but other producers are already doing it and it's possible.
I have a feeling that if Mackie wants to invest in such "interactive" tuts to help Tracktion become more popular, this form of tutorials might even create an additional argument versus the competing hosts and make the customers say one day: "oh yeah Cubase is cool - but Tracktion has the coolest tutorials!"
Flash does have a significant learning curve for the more elaborate stuff, but it's not out of reach for instructional designers and developers.
To create online audio-visual streaming content, the easiest method is of course to make the video in MPEG format (high compression and small files) or WindowsMedia (bad for Mac users) or QT (not installed by too many users) or with RealProducer (but many users dislike Realplayer and other nasty plugins) or even Vivo (not often installed) and alternative video formats. All these formats basically require only *one* development step to make them. With "FLV" (= Flash Video), there are more development steps: First import the video into Flash (I usually recommend SwishVideo for best quality), then add layers with other content (e.g. interactive chapter navigation and buttons and links which are to be *programmed* with a bit of Actionscript code), and then embed the Flash video into the desired environment (usually a HTML web page or a full-screen Flash page).
Here's some interesting info from Vitalstream. It also shows that the Flash player is installed in far more Internet user systems than *any* other browser plugins (such as Real): http://www.vitalstream.com/macromedia/index.html
So... if you want to reach most users with your video tuts and give them the best experience and learning result, the possibilities are right there. Imagine the CD's you can buy with interactive multimedia presentations in them, you can make the same online. And you can have a concept driven by style and aesthetics, since you have full control over all aspects of the presentation. On a side note, when my clients ask me to develop animated Flash "intros" for their new websites, I often advise them not to do it: Flash has been totally over-used in the past years. Many of us hate the stupid intros on too many websites and we skip them. But... in one field, and this happens to be interactive tutorials, Flash gives the best result and coolest user experience.
Ah well, probably all this is just wishful thinking. So if you give me MPEG's, I'll also be happy with them. - Probably!
Greg
(- I wrote this from the perspective of a "Tracktion" sequencer user and assumed that everybody here knows what it is)
Last edited by sonicsmurf on Wed May 04, 2005 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1530 posts since 20 Apr, 2005 from southsubchicago
i'm about as dumb to this subject as they come, at some point i put realplayer on this crappy old p2 i'm using, i'm buliding a new pc, while researching on kvr i decided to check out Bones' tune demos, i try to load files to the hd, streaming too slow, accidentally clicked a file without saving, Real keptsmp wrote:I voted Flash but I'd be happy with mpeg, too. I would object quite strongly to Real as I hate their nasty spying POS player.
s
trying to get me to register, kept putting ads windows up that wouldn't close, and the hd was churning away after all was done... i'm assuming this is a spyware thing like you speak of? after the window hassle, i assumed something was up.. i've never dealt with this much before, i just used this pc to program my nord micromod... if you kind folks could point me in the direction of some info or a primer on this subject (besides telling me to only use my pc for audio/daw!!!), i would be a happy computer dummy!!! pm would be fine, can't rember if my email is up here....
btw, i saw a flash tut at quite.pc.com last week on installing a zalman cpu heat sink/fan- the flash info
smurf provided is very interesting....even i understand!
thanks once again from the pc newbie,
rg
KVR: come for the music, stay for the polemics and grammar lessons...
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streamingsimon streamingsimon https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=67237
- KVRer
- 1 posts since 4 May, 2005 from London UK
AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.
The smurf is right - we've been using Flash video content for projects including tuts for three years and the interactivity is great - plus you get the same results across all platforms. BTW - using a "wrapper" such as Zinc you can easily make Flash video downloadable - so the entire tut including the video can be watched offline.sonicsmurf wrote:Flash is great for video tutorials.
You can even make it interactive. Think of several chapter-buttons and the ability for users to easily "jump" from tutorial chapter 1 to chapter 7, for example? Cannot do that with QT.
You can combine video - and animation. And put voice-overs on top of everyhing.
And: In several languages. Selectable by button. Cannot do that with... you know
According to mediacollege, Flash is indeed one of the *streaming video* formats:
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/strea ... rview.html (http://www.mediacollege.com/video/streaming/overview.html)
In the UK, streamcity offers Flash video streaming:
http://streamcity.co.uk/ (http://streamcity.co.uk/)
and et cetera and so forth. It's not really so dumb. I guess
See what web video can do - streamcity.co.uk
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- vvvvvvv
- 2595 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk
Check my site. It has shedloads of streaming flash video.
Flash offers:
- better console design than windows
- Mac or PC
- it's easy to do the basics with
We've been working with it for a while now. Viewing costs around the same as a text message.
Flash interactive stuff is still a specialist area and expensive to buy unless you know someone in India.
Flash offers:
- better console design than windows
- Mac or PC
- it's easy to do the basics with
We've been working with it for a while now. Viewing costs around the same as a text message.
Flash interactive stuff is still a specialist area and expensive to buy unless you know someone in India.
Member 12, Studio One Pro 7, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 8, Spitfire, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys. Recent best buy - EZ Drummer 3 with Bandmate
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- KVRAF
- 3964 posts since 31 Aug, 2003 from In a foreign town, in a foreign land
For interactivity Flash is teh pwn, and flashplayer is now available for Linux, too. Well, all advantages have been summed up already, I guess.
The downside is that some people refuse to use flash for security-reasons, which is a valid reason in my opinion.
For downloadable stuff I'd prefer Xvid or MPEG. Xvid offers great quality in a compact file, and it's an open format which is cool.
Sorensen 3 is a great codec but I see many people hate QuickTime, and the files it creates are rather big.
Groet, Erik
The downside is that some people refuse to use flash for security-reasons, which is a valid reason in my opinion.
For downloadable stuff I'd prefer Xvid or MPEG. Xvid offers great quality in a compact file, and it's an open format which is cool.
Sorensen 3 is a great codec but I see many people hate QuickTime, and the files it creates are rather big.
Groet, Erik
Pop music delenda est.
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- KVRist
- 180 posts since 26 Sep, 2004
mpg preferred, flash acceptable. IMO, interactivity is not important for small tutorials. I just want to be taught, no more.
Quicktime, wma and real not acceptable.
Quicktime, wma and real not acceptable.
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- KVRAF
- 3588 posts since 13 May, 2004 from montreal
I consider myself pretty intermediate - getting better slowly. I'm pretty good at the math nerd generative art stuff, though. My job consists largely of Flash work these days.sonicsmurf wrote: PS I checked your website
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
Yep. Took me only a short look at your homepage to feel that *g*. I have seen ten thousands of Flash sites by now - as it happens I once built one of the internationally best known Flash galleries (if you Google for 'best flash sites gallery' mine is still first). So I'm happy that there are other ppl here, who realize the potential of Flash - and of tutorials.dystonia_ek wrote:My job consists largely of Flash work these days.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 3588 posts since 13 May, 2004 from montreal
Just checked your site - props for mentioning Conclave Obscurum, which has been a favourite of mine for a few years now. Your main site selection is well chosen, and shows off the potential well.sonicsmurf wrote:Yep. Took me only a short look at your homepage to feel that *g*. I have seen ten thousands of Flash sites by now - as it happens I once built one of the internationally best known Flash galleries (if you Google for 'best flash sites gallery' mine is still first). So I'm happy that there are other ppl here, who realize the potential of Flash - and of tutorials.dystonia_ek wrote:My job consists largely of Flash work these days.
Greg