Software Is Never Out Of Stock

[headquest]

if you are a first time purchaser of Live, you must purchase a box... unless I'm missing something, because I see no download option. Upgraders are eligible for a download tho. Kinda sounds like Tracktion to me...

Not really

Firstly, the Tracktion install program weihs in at 14.2MB, while Live 4.1 is a massive 104 MB. Suffice it to say that - while both are obviously compressed - Live 4 takes significantly longer to download than T2

Next, unless I've missed something, T2 will be the last version of Tracktion that any of us will be able to download and license without buying a boxed version. I'm seeing dollar signs in my eyes here In any case, Live 2 was not the final downloadable upgrade of Live - versions 3 and 4 upgrades were also downloadable, and I have no reason to doubt that Live 5 upgrade will be available to download a few months from now.

Thirdly, you can buy the upgrade as a boxed version directly from the Ableton website without being ripped off by a local dealer. And before anyone contests the words "ripped off" here, I am informed by one of our australian friends that their local price has now been confirmed as equivalent to $299. Whereas Abletons approach prevents such local variations .

Note, I am NOT saying that Ableton or Live are perfect and that Mackie and Tracktion are rubbish! All have their flaws. But I do think that when it comes to marketing and distribution Ableton are one of a small handful of companies that generally (not always) treat their customers pretty well... and Mackie aren't

[AD80]

"I bought mine from www.samedaymusic.com and it arrived 2 days later"

[ModuLR]

Not really

Firstly, the Tracktion install program weihs in at 14.2MB, while Live 4.1 is a massive 104 MB. Suffice it to say that - while both are obviously compressed - Live 4 takes significantly longer to download than T2

Next, unless I've missed something, T2 will be the last version of Tracktion that any of us will be able to download and license without buying a boxed version. I'm seeing dollar signs in my eyes here In any case, Live 2 was not the final downloadable upgrade of Live - versions 3 and 4 upgrades were also downloadable, and I have no reason to doubt that Live 5 upgrade will be available to download a few months from now.

Thirdly, you can buy the upgrade as a boxed version directly from the Ableton website without being ripped off by a local dealer. And before anyone contests the words "ripped off" here, I am informed by one of our australian friends that their local price has now been confirmed as equivalent to $299. Whereas Abletons approach prevents such local variations .

Note, I am NOT saying that Ableton or Live are perfect and that Mackie and Tracktion are rubbish! All have their flaws. But I do think that when it comes to marketing and distribution Ableton are one of a small handful of companies that generally (not always) treat their customers pretty well... and Mackie aren't

think about it like this... This thread is about a new purchaser ultimately wanting to download T2.. then someone suggested that Live, Max/MSP, and various VSTs offer downloadable versions. I just skipped the VSTs and focused on Live since it's the only sequencer that was mentioned. It seemed to suggest something popular which is offered as a box, but is downloadable as well... and considering the context of the thread, it would suggest that if you are a new user, you can download Live.

My point is that for a new purcahser, you can't download Live... nor can you download, Sonar, DP, Logic, Cubase, Reason, or Project5. That was really what I was attempting to suggest as the similarity. We all know the international deal is nothing like Live... just trying to express that you can't download Live either if you are a newbie.

btw, I've never read anything that suggested all future T upgrades will be boxed either.. and by that I mean, upgrades sans the 3rd party stuff.

[koolkeys]

First of all, the upgrade IS downloadable. But the boxed bundle isn't. And it weighs in at FAR more than Live does. That's my point. So to say that Ableton are "better" at marketing without looking at that fact is a mis-statement.

And I still haven't had anyone tell me where anyone from Mackie said that we will never be able to upgrade by download again. If it's there, then fine. I just haven't seen it because every time I ask, nobody can find it. I don't mean to doubt, it's just not known to me.

Also, Mackie is great with handling customers. To say that they probably have a smaller group focused on T2 compared to their hardware is probably true. But I've heard a couple stories here lately where Mackie messed up, then compensated the customer for it. But in the experience that I've seen, Mackie has always been good. Support has been great for those I know with consoles and such. I'd assume that as Tracktion grows, more resources will be alocated for it. Plus, since when is a $20 upgrade not treating your customers well? It seems like a pretty good omen to me. Plus, think of it this way. Mackie never made a dime on T1 before they made the deal with Jules, and that's when most of the T1 users came, BEFORE Mackie. So Mackie really isn't making that much money yet with T2, considering all they've put into it so far. So they have said thank you to their customers with the upgrade of $20, despite the fact that they could have made ALOT more.

I just try to see the good side here. Please don't think that I believe Mackie is perfect. I think they've made a few mistakes, but it's still fairly new for them. And I don't think there's really that much to be upset about.

Koolkeys

[semiquaver]

mea culpa re: live - my bad.

but the point is that good old raw materials meant download the damn product for $80 end of story. $80 to Jules. New corporate product means buy stupid box for $150 - some goes for printing some for gas some for the music store some to UPS blah blah blah. and $20 to Jules (guess!) OK thats how it is w/dp and sonar et al - well then its a waste all round! I'm not ragging on Mackie per se - the whole business is in need of a face lift.

I suppose a big part of the problem is cracks so please folks if you can afford it (that's a big if!) *don't* do it - esp if you actually like the product. Finally thats why I like ilok - it's relatively simple, it moves with you , and it allows your vendor to keep the program freely downloadable.

[headquest]

First of all, the upgrade IS downloadable. But the boxed bundle isn't. And it weighs in at FAR more than Live does. That's my point. So to say that Ableton are "better" at marketing without looking at that fact is a mis-statement.

I didn't make that point intending it as a sweeping statement, but rather my personal view as a customer of both. . The reasons I think that Ableton handled the marketing/distribution of the Live 4 upgrade better - speaking as somebody who bought and is enjoying both L4 and T2 - are:

1. Ableton communicated clearly and effectively WHEN Live 4 would be available, HOW and WHERE I could get it from, and HOW MUCH it would cost. In my experience the communication from Mackie has been less clear.

2. The cost of the boxed version (which included a massive samples collection and a 400+ page manual ) was significantly lower for upgrade customers as opposed to new customers, rather than the same price (although I realise that us non-US customers may get a small rebate at some point...)

3. Said box could be purchased directly from the Ableton website without a retailer's mark-up.

4. Ableton worked with local distributers to ensure the cost of the full box to new customers was *similar* worldwide. As noted above, the Australian street price for T2 is DOUBLE the US one. American companies specifically seem to have a problem sorting out this one (e.g. Cakewalk, etc)

And I still haven't had anyone tell me where anyone from Mackie said that we will never be able to upgrade by download again. If it's there, then fine. I just haven't seen it because every time I ask, nobody can find it. I don't mean to doubt, it's just not known to me.

It seems to be widely claimed that version 2 will be the last that users can get as a download. Is that fiction/rumour? I assumed it came from Mackie because it is being so widely stated here?

Also, Mackie is great with handling customers.

I don't doubt that, and it wasn't my point . Customer support is an entirely different matter to marketing/distribution, and is handled by different personel.

[Lunch Money]

Oy vey.

Until Live starts weighing in at X # of gigabytes (3 CDs, but I don't know how full each is) it's a moot comparison.

The evidence seems to indicate that we WILL be able to download upgrades. Haven't we already done so? Did I miss something?

Greg

[pethu]

"I bought mine from www.samedaymusic.com and it arrived 2 days later"

Yes, but www.musicintwodays.com does not really sound right, does it?

[koolkeys]

No harm meant headquest. Just some observations from my side.

I'd say more, but I'm dead tired, as I just got back from the Star Wars 3 premiere(don't ask, I just always seem to go. I'm not a freak though!) G'nite.

Koolkeys

[haydxn]

there have been NO statements about future upgrades. a future upgrade would most likely be for something called T3, and there's not an iota of word from anyone except groundhogs about that. there is no official line on 'no downloads evermore'. none. the topic of future download policy is void because it is completely beyond relevance.

[AD80]

"I bought mine from www.samedaymusic.com and it arrived 2 days later"

Yes, but www.musicintwodays.com does not really sound right, does it?

[Mr. Tingle]

having a downloadable version is an excellent idea and makes use of all that is good (convenience, low overheads, less waste) so why not do it?

I think Mackie want a share of the distribution market so they have to stop competing with the distributes, hence no download.

Not so bad for me (and anyone that cares not for the plugins and who owns T1) shame for the latecomers..

If there is always an option to upgrade online that would at least be a good compromise.

[AD80]

If there is always an option to upgrade online that would at least be a good compromise.

I think original T1 owners should always be able to download the upgrades. Everybody else.... .

[pethu]

I think original T1 owners should always be able to download the upgrades. Everybody else.... .

I think those who downloaded the upgrade should never be allowed to buy another plugin again. Of any brand. Ever.

[AD80]

I think original T1 owners should always be able to download the upgrades. Everybody else.... .

I think those who downloaded the upgrade should never be allowed to buy another plugin again. Of any brand. Ever.

Fine with me. I got the box .