Full Delay Compensation in racks for UAD Plugins and SIR

[IIRs]

A DAW that has full PDC? Cubase SX 1,2,and 3. 3 is absolutely flawless as far as that goes. It adjusts it if you add it in the middle of the track playing with only a minor hickup that happens to be exactly as long as your hardware latency is set to. Samplitude has full latency compensation; but you have to restart playing the track. The latest version of Logic does it too. They just released a patch to make the busses fully compliant.

<sigh> You really don't get it do you? Every routing that is possible in Cubase can have full PDC in Tracktion. The only situations in which Tracktion's PDC stops working is inside racks for which Cubase has no equivalent.



I challenge you once again: name another app THAT OFFERS FULL MODULAR ROUTING OPTIONS AND FULL PDC. I don't think there is one at the moment.

[chico.co.uk]

Think you missed the important point of the question, which is why it's so hard to code

name an app that offers full modularity AND full hold-your-hand-type PDC..

[rumpsummoner]

I never said it works in all situations. It is possible to set up a delay compensated aux send however..

.. I ask you once again: what exactly are you trying to do? There is probably just a simple change needed to make it work, eg: multi output racks will need a aux send rack filter for every output, even if some are set to send 0dB.

I thought I put that in my original post. I mix all my drums to a stereo track, then I send that stereo track to a stereo bus and run eq and compression on the bus. I end up with a clean drum track, and a compressed/overeq'd drum track. This gives me huge drums with nice transients that I would normally lose from the compression. The problem is that it can't handle UAD pluggins if I add them to each track without causing a train wreck. I am completely aware of the "simple" change which is set up multiple output racks with aux send filters on every ouput. The other easy way to do it would be to add the delay compensator that UA provides with the UAD-1 to every track like I used to have to do 3 years ago before cubase sx came out. The point is that it is a pain in the ass and just generally dumb if you have more than a handful of tracks, which I do. I am not interested in workarounds. I am interested in it working as it should.

[IIRs]

let me see if i understand you: You sub-group your drums, and then the drum sub-group is send to an aux buss with compression and EQ, so you have a compressed and EQ'ed drum mix running in parallel with your dry drum mix.. do I have that right?

If so, there is a better way to acheive the same result in Tracktion (thanks to the modular racks that Cubase lacks).

Create a rack containing your UAD compression and EQ, with UAD delay compensator plugs wired in parallel. Save this rack as a preset so you don't have to do it again. Now insert this rack on your drum group..

[rumpsummoner]

A DAW that has full PDC? Cubase SX 1,2,and 3. 3 is absolutely flawless as far as that goes. It adjusts it if you add it in the middle of the track playing with only a minor hickup that happens to be exactly as long as your hardware latency is set to. Samplitude has full latency compensation; but you have to restart playing the track. The latest version of Logic does it too. They just released a patch to make the busses fully compliant.

<sigh> You really don't get it do you? Every routing that is possible in Cubase can have full PDC in Tracktion. The only situations in which Tracktion's PDC stops working is inside racks for which Cubase has no equivalent.



I challenge you once again: name another app THAT OFFERS FULL MODULAR ROUTING OPTIONS AND FULL PDC. I don't think there is one at the moment.

You're absolutely daft man. All the racks are is a clever new way to handle bussing and aux routing. You said, "Every routing that is possible in Cubase can have full PDC in Tracktion." Cubase has an equivalent and it is called bus and aux channels and I can add multiple delay introducing pluggins to them and have full PDC. I gave you an example of one that doesn't work just now and you are still arguing with me. There is not a single thing you can do in Tracktion that I can not do Cubase as far as routing goes. The difference is that in Cubase I don't ever have to worry about delay compensation.

I gave you an example of something that doesn't work in Tracktion that does in Cubase. They are litterally doing the same exact thing and you're response was, "The only situations in which Tracktion's PDC stops working is inside racks for which Cubase has no equivalent." A rack is just a clever way to handle bussing and aux routing so you're completely wrong. Stop arguing with me. I know it can be done. I want it to be done right. Someone give me a hand with this guy please.

[rumpsummoner]

let me see if i understand you: You sub-group your drums, and then the drum sub-group is send to an aux buss with compression and EQ, so you have a compressed and EQ'ed drum mix running in parallel with your dry drum mix.. do I have that right?

If so, there is a better way to acheive the same result in Tracktion (thanks to the modular racks that Cubase lacks).

Create a rack containing your UAD compression and EQ, with UAD delay compensator plugs wired in parallel. Save this rack as a preset so you don't have to do it again. Now insert this rack on your drum group..

Exactly, you've got it. That is setting up a submix bus for the drum tracks. In this software it is called a rack but whatever, it is a bus submix. It's the exact same thing implimented differently. The problem is that I have to use the delay compensator. So lets say a day later I decide to add a SIR reverb to that rack. Well now my delay compensation is off on every other track and I get to go through and change the delay compensation on all those tracks. I could bus them all to a single track and apply delay compensation on that track but I still have to go and do two things when I should be able to just add the effect and move on. I don't want to have to deal with that and manage that. I want it to just work.

[IIRs]

You've got a serious attitude problem do you know that? I do everything you are describing in Tracktion on a regular basis, along with far more complex stuff that is NOT possible in Cubase.. but if you can't be bothered to try my suggestions without being insulting I suggest you f**k off back to the Cubase forum.

I wonder why i bother sometimes.

[rumpsummoner]

You've got a serious attitude problem do you know that? I do everything you are describing in Tracktion on a regular basis, along with far more complex stuff that is NOT possible in Cubase.. but if you can't be bothered to try my suggestions without being insulting I suggest you f**k off back to the Cubase forum.

I wonder why i bother sometimes.

I really don't have an attitude problem. I have a problem with users of software thinking I am beating up their kid when I am simply complaining about something so it will get fixed so I can use it and not waste lots of time doing pluggin management. I am not personally attacking you, I just don't want excuses and workarounds. Suggesting I f**k off back to the Cubase forums does nothing to improve Tracktion. If the worse thing that happens by my making suggestions is I get told to f**k off by you then this "argument" is completely worth it as long as Jules gets this taken care of.

Give me an example of something you are doing in this software that I can't do in Cubase. If you do it I'll go away forever and never rag on Tracktion again. I just want the software to work like it should up front. I love the UI, I just don't like the incomplete PDC. I have no doubt that you can do things faster in Tracktion which is why I like it; but if I have to do pluggin management, I lose that benefit. To suggest that I can't do something though is just naive.

[rumpsummoner]

There is a much bigger problem with T2 and UAD.
When you save a song not all the UAD parameters are saved

For example on the DM-1 all the knob positions will be saved except for the LFO RATE.
Similar result with some knobs on the EQ in the channel strip.

(sorry I told you)

I have a feeling that will be an easier bug to fix though. It is good to know though.

[IIRs]

Give me an example of something you are doing in this software that I can't do in Cubase.

I just gave you one: Parallel compression as an insert effect. Your setup in cubase ties up an aux send and a sub-group, and to adjust the overall level of the drums you need to adjust 2 channels together. To add further effects to both version you would need to further route them to yet another group. In Tracktion, once you have set up the rack once and saved the preset, you can set up parallel compression on any track by simply creating an instance of your rack preset and dragging it to the track. Any subsequent effects can be inserted after the rack. Easy!

Your turn: in Cubase, how does one go about setting up true stereo side-chaining..?

[cbit]

(sorry to interrupt: pe, so it's possible to avoid pdc problems with uad plugs in racks by just using the bundled delay compensator plugs (one for each uad plug)?)

[valley]

yes

[IIRs]

(sorry to interrupt: pe, so it's possible to avoid pdc problems with uad plugs in racks by just using the bundled delay compensator plugs (one for each uad plug)?)

I don't have a UAD (unfortunately) but it should work..

I have a rack preset that uses two Acuma stereo compressors wired in parallel in a rack for parallel compression. One of the compressors is set to pass the signal with no processing, and is only there to match the latency of the dry signal with the compressed version. It should be possible to set up the same thing with a UAD compressor in parallel with a delay compensator plug.. the 'hassle' argument doesn't really hold water for me, as this rack can then be saved and re-used with ease.

[rumpsummoner]

Give me an example of something you are doing in this software that I can't do in Cubase.

I just gave you one: Parallel compression as an insert effect. Your setup in cubase ties up an aux send and a sub-group, and to adjust the overall level of the drums you need to adjust 2 channels together. To add further effects to both version you would need to further route them to yet another group. In Tracktion, once you have set up the rack once and saved the preset, you can set up parallel compression on any track by simply creating an instance of your rack preset and dragging it to the track. Any subsequent effects can be inserted after the rack. Easy!

Your turn: in Cubase, how does one go about setting up true stereo side-chaining..?

The end result is the same though so I can do it and you actually explained how... I just can't do it very quickly. I didn't say it couldn't be done easier in Tracktion. That is my whole reason for trying Tracktion. It is definately easier in Tracktion and Tracktion is definately more flexible. Although, you don't have to adjust the volume in two tracks in Cubase because you can put your aux send post fader so as you adjust it, it adjusts the other track too. And you can route as many tracks as you want to your aux channel once it is set up. That being said, Tracktion in this scenario still doesn't handle delay compensation without lots of workarounds and pluggin management and that is my whole gripe because it kills efficiency. It is important because it kills efficiency on something I use all the time unlike...

True Stereo Side-Chaining, the ultimate touche in a Cubase vs. whatever argument. This is the same thing everyone throws at me. I never use it; but I figured out how to do it just to get people to stop using it as an example.

1. Enable sidechaining in whatever compressor/effect you use that supports it.

2. Add a group track and set to Quadro (4.0).

3. Route both track and control sources to the group.

4. Use the surround panners to set the track source to front middle and the control source to rear middle.

5. If you need output from your control source at the main bus, simply add a send and enable it.

6. Set up your compressor to listen on the right tracks.

Admittedly, it is a pain in the nuts; however, I use delay compensated pluggins a lot more than I side chain a compressor. Again, I didn't say Tracktion couldn't do this stuff faster; I just don't believe there is anything I can't do with Cubase. If there is I have not run into it yet. It would be nice to be able to do it faster in Tracktion; however, I want my delay compensation with no gotchas. How do you side chain in Tracktion?

[valley]

How do you side chain in Tracktion?

Stick the plug in a rack, and the rack on two tracks.