Another warez user featured in an FM video?

[KingClarkie]

Well, have to say that you might not really understand how different forms of marketing work these days.

Feel free to enlighten me.

[trimph1]

Am I naive to assume that much of this is an age thing?

Are middle age guys (like me) less likely to pilfer stuff because of a moral compass, a fatter bank account, or both?

Seems to me that young guys coming up are surrounded by peers that have grown up around the Pirate Bay culture and really don't think twice about it. And, they also can probably afford it less.

Now, even as I say this, I admit that I do have a very good friend--a wealthy musician/producer--who is my age and surprised me years ago when he admitted that his copies of Nuendo/Waves/etc. were warez. So, maybe not an age thing? I really don't know that many people in the biz other than from KVR.

Thoughts?

I am not so sure it is an age related thing. I have seen the same thing occur in a fair number of businesses as well.

I doubt if one did a questionnaire on the reasons why someone does not buy the software in question but chose to pirate the the thing that the questions therein might be answered honestly ..

[highkoo]

The level of cuntishness in this thread is impressive. Bravo.

Holy +1.
This thread is full of suck and stupid on all sides.

[Compyfox]

The level of cuntishness in this thread is impressive. Bravo.

Holy +1.
This thread is full of suck and stupid on all sides.

Care to fill us in then?

I'd also love to get an answer to this:

Is it just me or is there a sudden abundance of warez apologist/supporters on this forum lately?

Did I miss something?

You're only seeing what you want to see.

Indeed. There's not really a sudden abundance at all, the place has always been full of the vermin; its just that every so often, in threads like this, they crank up the excuses.

Glad you noticed that after only a week here.

I'd love to know who these so called "vermin" are. You know... put us into camps so that we know who is residing on which side. I'm really curious.

[t3toooo]

I'm going to connect the other thread because i replied over there.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6094652

[t3toooo]

I guess for FM that little tiny bit of "TE.." is not enough proof anyways...of course it raises suspicion.

Yes it does because they did it already several times but with a full warez logo in the vid.

This is idiots marketing,marketing for idiots (not talking about piracy,lol).

[highkoo]

Care to fill us in then?

Not really.
I tapped out back on page 1.

My problem basically is that this topic tends to push people to claim extreme viewpoints, none of which are accurate, justified, or helpful when trying to have an open conversation about the issue.

Some people want to burn pirates. Some people dont think open-air ( ) piracy is worth us even talking about. Both opinions are counter-productive, imo.

Urs' reaction, and contribution to this thread is surprising and fantastic, and will hopefully cause some positive attention. It is smart, and measured. He stays playful with pirating users using, but goes straight for the wallet when it comes to the industry supporting it. Quite a contrast to the Waves undercover sting operations from years ago that backfired in many circles.

Piracy will never, ever, ever, be stopped. Not worth thinking about. But the acceptance of it has to crushed. Like, right now.
The dark side will always exist, and everyone is always going to have to stay true to their own moral compass, and decide what they think is right, and I hope to never have to live in a world where a man cannot choose to do wrong, or right. But, I think we really ought to try very hard to make sure that the standard issue compass points true north.
i.e. People who are choosing to use warez should feel bad about it. If they dont, that is a much bigger problem for the industry that the existence of cracked software.

To have arguably the biggest publisher in the biz repeatedly flaunting it, and not offering up huge apologies, is really super duper f**king bad.
Who is going to make killer software in an environment like that? No one smart, who has other options where equity is still the rule.

I will say this;
If FM came to me or my client, an unknown so-and-so, who just put out such-and-such, and was going to do a vid to distribute to a bazillion people in my market demographic, I might go find the hottest warez to 'accidentally' display. Putting the ethics of the larger effect the stunt has aside; For the unknown 'artist', I completely believe that it would be a valid marketing stunt. Low risk, high reward.

But, for FM to do it is another story. That industry pays their bills. To repeatedly and flagrantly have 'accidents', while also possibly a valid marketing tool, is way too high-risk/low-reward imo. Of course, they might still have decided to purposefully do it. But it would be dumb.

They really should have worked it out before hand;
Artist does it at their discretion, FM goes along, but is allowed total deniability, publicly 'shames' artist in a big font, artist says some ignorant shit on fb, everyone wins.
I should be an agent.

[Compyfox]

I should be an agent.

You should - what's your rate?

[Urs]

Piracy will never, ever, ever, be stopped.

I disagree. Where's Bazille[k], Presswerk[k], Satin 1.1[k], Zebra V2.7[k]? Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!). The usual forums and torrent sites are empty, apart from people moaning that every so often our stuff stops working for them. I wished I cold link to those forums, it's a very entertaining read.

(Funny: Just this week we had 3 fresh customers asking us how to remove "the serial number they got from their friend")

The problem is, every developer must up their protection and it's not that difficult (RubenLD, if you read this: Do Not Use RSA or Anything Using A Public Key Embedded In The Soft). There's even a book about this circulating among audio software devs, and it pretty much explains what we do too. It's not even complicated, it's just very surprising and thinking-out-of-the-box.

If everybody did this, pirating audio soft would be more tedious than buying it. Even them perducers that do stuff simple enough to be featured in videos-that-make-me-cringe will then rather buy (or leave music making to talented people, because if you're too lazy to enter a serial number, you're probably too lazy to contribute anything culturally valuable).

That said, if Lennar came up with a serious update, that would help a lot. That would be a blessing for the whole industry. My hopes are on Sylenth2!

- Urs

[robotmonkey]

Have you actually read the research, rather than just the articles on the research?

You know, like the Ofcom report where it points out that piracy of software was 50% more prevalent than piracy of videos, and nearly twice as prevalent as piracy of music, and yet only singled out music and video as being areas where frequent piraters spent more money on music- and video- related purchases(*)

Yes. I can assure you that I'm quite familiar with the research done in this filed. It would be obviously better to put links to actual research articles whenever possible but I'm sure most of the people here do not have access to academic databases, and I'm also doubtful that many people here who do not have academic interest in this field would bother to read through all those hundred of pages of research. So referenced articles will have to do. Or even better, there's also often links to referenced studies in those same articles.

But if you would like to do some reading on this topic I would highly recommend the first chapter of Media Piracy In Emerging Economies (http://www.scribd.com/doc/50196972/MPEE-1-0-1), a very important piece of recent research in the field. Just two quotes of interest (p. 15-16;p. 19):

"When John Gantz, research director at the IDC, was asked about the impact of high Western software prices on piracy in developing countries, he suggested that possibly only one in ten unauthorized copies represented a lost sale. Absent clearer data, we would call this a plausible guess—and one that would have dramatically reduced the $29 billion loss that the BSA claimed in 2003. As Gantz observed, “I would have preferred to call it [the $29 billion] the retail value of pirated software” (Lohr 2004). In 2010, Gantz got his wish when the IDC started referring to these numbers as “the commercial value of unlicensed software” (BSA/IDC 2010b). This seemingly minor shift is, in fact, quite consequential: it salvages the one-to-one correspondence at the heart of the IDC method, putting it on firmer methodological ground. But any claims about losses are now gone."

"In contrast, we see a plausible case that Microsoft products have added value because of the positive network effects associated with Microsoft’s dominance of the desktop (well over90% in developing markets), which make Windows and related products de facto standards. But as the IDC’s numbers indicate, this dominance in low- and middle-income countries is attributable almost entirely to software piracy, rather than legal licensing. As we will argue later, such network effects make piracy a key feature of software business models in emerging economies."

A TL;DR version can be found here:
https://torrentfreak.com/game-changing- ... ve-110311/

[whyterabbyt]

I'd love to know who these so called "vermin" are. You know... put us into camps so that we know who is residing on which side. I'm really curious.

Are you perhaps under some bizarre impression that Ive been compiling some sort of list or something? Try going back and paying attention to ten-plus years of warez threads, and observe the number of apologists for it that turn up in them. Ive been in more than my fair share of them, but I dont recall you being that bothered about taking part, so I reckon my observation is at least informed.
If you then want to argue that there hasnt always been folk making a vocal defense for warez use here, then go ahead and do so. Just dont pull this 'give me a list of names or it cant be true' crap.
If you'd rather argue for dnekm's assertion that its worse recently, then even you should have got that I was disagreeing in the wider historical context, but he's certainly right that there's been certain noticable stuff of late. However if you're trying to argue that there arent warez apologists here, you're just being an ignorant idiot.

[maschinelf]

As to this idiotic idea that FM are promoting piracy to boost sales: who exactly is going to buy a magazine because it condones piracy?

The only thing idiotic here is an inability to detect an undertone of sarcasm in my original post.

[She Changed Her Mind]

Well, the only audio computer related mag I still can buy from the shelf here in Holland is CM. I guess that is enough of a business indication.

[IncarnateX]

If I was a DEV I wouldn't give dick about research, even if it showed that software piracy will lead us right into the age of aquarius and ever lasting world peace. My product would legally be mine and thus it should be my call to decide what to make of any research and whether I will let me rob or not. A developer should be able to sell and promote their products in legal ways without forced "support" by warezers. Simple as that.

[Kriminal]

Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!)

what does that (time bomb) mean?

assuming you get the .dll with the serial DL, how can you stop it working?