Am I the only one who couldn't care less about touchscreen?

[viceverser]

I too am feeling disinterested in Bitwig, and have gone from an evangelist, to a somewhat silent observer, waiting for signs of serious software development, and less gimmicky exertion.

I would have been more understanding of touch, as an example of possible customisations offered in version 2, but at this point... it just seems futile and gimmicky... When a large chunk of VSTs are not touch friendly, and Bitwig Devs/Community keep pointing to external plugins to fulfill the gaping holes in the current functionality (Analyser???)... it seems less cohesive as a developing proof of concept DAW. Where the "Concept" was seemingly to move towards the promises of V2.0, "Shared projects, Pure Modularity, polyphonic note modulation, forward thinking alternatives to outdated formats (Midi, OSC), unparalleled customization, and full featured DAW in one package"... We currently have a less than full featured DAW showing off... Touch???

I hope the reason is the Dev's may have been side tracked by Microsoft, and Bitwig maybe wanted to pressure Mac into developing a touch API for OSX? Otherwise I fear they are just getting impatient with implementing missing features, and the boredom is fueling experiments like "Touch" much like a kid with ADHD! But, again, that didn't seem to be the original promise... That, as yet hasn't been met.

I honestly think the Bitwig Devs are brilliant, forward thinking individuals... And I am thankful for their efforts. I understand they don't owe me anything... This is the only community I have taken an interest in, due to the belief in the Devs and their vision.

Fingers crossed that they have gotten the boredom/itch out of their system, and now the focus gets back to basics... I could list ALL the features everyone is asking for, but it would be redundant. They know what's required for the DAW to get up to par... Lets get it happening!

Cheers... V.

[Pprimo]

I could care less about touchscreen. I personally think it just took away more resources to work on BitWig 1.6.

[takaii]

Fingers crossed that they have gotten the boredom/itch out of their system, and now the focus gets back to basics... I could list ALL the features everyone is asking for, but it would be redundant. They know what's required for the DAW to get up to par... Lets get it happening!

Cheers... V.

Ranting same stuff we all have. Lets do something more useful now We all know whats missing and bitwig devolopers do know that to. They are serious about their software. The problem is we want a full version 1 daw and that is never gona happen. Ofc their touch implement took many by suprice and can be seen as not soo serious. But i think bitwig made a strategic move to try get more money in to devolope those features we want. Like dom said it was not hard implement touch. Bitwig need money, its not free to devolope software and i start to see the whole picture after reading this thread. I was supriced after making a vote pole to see that many here at kvr actually seem to use touch. Bitwig wont grow without users buying bitwig and all the necessary features wont come in one daw to make all people buy bitwig in an instance. Lets not focus and like ive done on touch to much. Sure i think the same but looking at the whole picture i might understand their move. Might end up as a win win situation Ps touch is allready intergrated and they cant go back and redo. Lets be happy now

[shonoob]

I too am feeling disinterested in Bitwig, and have gone from an evangelist, to a somewhat silent observer, waiting for signs of serious software development, and less gimmicky exertion.

I would have been more understanding of touch, as an example of possible customisations offered in version 2, but at this point... it just seems futile and gimmicky... When a large chunk of VSTs are not touch friendly, and Bitwig Devs/Community keep pointing to external plugins to fulfill the gaping holes in the current functionality (Analyser???)... it seems less cohesive as a developing proof of concept DAW. Where the "Concept" was seemingly to move towards the promises of V2.0, "Shared projects, Pure Modularity, polyphonic note modulation, forward thinking alternatives to outdated formats (Midi, OSC), unparalleled customization, and full featured DAW in one package"... We currently have a less than full featured DAW showing off... Touch???

Exactly!!

I hope the reason is the Dev's may have been side tracked by Microsoft, and Bitwig maybe wanted to pressure Mac into developing a touch API for OSX? Otherwise I fear they are just getting impatient with implementing missing features, and the boredom is fueling experiments like "Touch" much like a kid with ADHD! But, again, that didn't seem to be the original promise... That, as yet hasn't been met.

I honestly think the Bitwig Devs are brilliant, forward thinking individuals... And I am thankful for their efforts. I understand they don't owe me anything... This is the only community I have taken an interest in, due to the belief in the Devs and their vision.

Fingers crossed that they have gotten the boredom/itch out of their system, and now the focus gets back to basics... I could list ALL the features everyone is asking for, but it would be redundant. They know what's required for the DAW to get up to par... Lets get it happening!

Cheers... V.

And of course I agree with this, though the Bitwig team has sadly lost a lot of my former interests/excitements of their DAW with their recent publicity stunts/direction they are taking. I was also going to recommend Bitwig to my brother for his first DAW, but now I am waiting to see if it is the right decision, as touchscreen won't be of any use for him either.

[pdxindy]

I honestly think the Bitwig Devs are brilliant, forward thinking individuals... And I am thankful for their efforts. I understand they don't owe me anything... This is the only community I have taken an interest in, due to the belief in the Devs and their vision.

Fingers crossed that they have gotten the boredom/itch out of their system, and now the focus gets back to basics... I could list ALL the features everyone is asking for, but it would be redundant. They know what's required for the DAW to get up to par... Lets get it happening!

Cheers... V.

Sorry, but this post does not make sense. Dom said adding the touch support did not take a lot of development resources. And while it was added, plenty of other stuff got done. My guess is that the touch support caused the updated Bitwig to be released a bit sooner (due to the MS schedule) than it would have been otherwise.

I can go to the forum of nearly every DAW and there is a big list of all the features users want, annoyed posts about bugs, etc. If Bitwig came out tomorrow with a 1.5 version that had half the features requested by users, 3 weeks from now the feature request list would be just as long as it is now.

In the past month, Bitwig has done some significant bug fixing and there have been some quiet but useful feature additions. It is happening.

Personally, I would like them to keep focusing on bug fixing and optimizations.

[misteraudio]

I'm using a new 23" touch screen on windows and I really like it for performing and quickly testing new ideas. Even with small fingers and the UI on large it took time getting used to it. First it seemed not that responsive but now after a month of playing around it really starts to replace my launchpad because after recording a few loops on the launchpad, there is no feedback on what that loop is or does. The lack of visual feedback on MIDI controllers always bugged me.

So far what I really like doing with my fingers is:
- making synth sounds and controlling knobs, sliders and such (even works with vst's)
- expressive playing (a bit like poly aftertouch)
- beat making (overdub) although a proper integrated step-seq for drums would be even better
- looping and performance in general (for clips the duplicate, move and erase functions per gesture are fantastic)

Yeah it's not perfect yet and if you're making a track over a long time, mouse and keyboard controls will be superior. People seem to think this is a replacement but to me it feels more like an addition to whatever you're using to make music. I've made an POV video of a simple jam recently that shows a few touch features if you're interested: youtube.com/watch?v=TFy4Z2G1OKo

If they get it right this could really shine once the modular 2.0 is released. Would love to create own devices aswell as the touch interface to control them.

[fluxmachina]

It will be a while before I get a touch screen monitor but hats off to the team for being one of the first to implement it. In the meantime I decided that instead of waiting another year or two for feature parity I'll jump ship. I originally bought Bitwig because it supported Linux (much respect for that) but even Linux has lost my interest these days.

Bitwig's arranger is awesome but with Live everything except the arranger just feels right for me at the moment.
- the interface feels lighter
- the looper is fun
- the legato launch mode for clips gives me the same possibilities as Geist's pattern triggering
- rex file support
- the chord device is a great jamming tool
- two fully developed integrated samplers that each play to different strengths
- Max for Live adds some nice possibilities for home made tools

Yep, that's for me. Bitwig is awesome, just not the right kind of awesome. For me to start making music again the right DAW/device combination is key and at the moment that is Live + Push1.

[zendorf]

Ironically, it is the new touch features that have drawn me to trying out Bitwig again. I am totally happy with Reaper being my main DAW, but I have been after a complimentary DAW that will work well on a Windows tablet for years. My initial noodlings with Bitwig have been very promising!

Not very impressed with any of the IOS/Android tablet workflows as there are too many compromises, especially when you need to get your ideas back into a full DAW. To me, the real attraction of what Bitwig and Windows are doing here is that you are getting the best of both worlds when you need them. The portability/scalability of mobile devices when you need it married with the power of high end desktops/laptops when you need need it. I can do some sketches on the run in touch mode, and then open up the same project file on my main machines when I get home. Both devices can run my favorite plugins and there are no issues transferring wave file/midi files back and forth.

There is no way I would want to use touch for heavy editing or mixing, but for triggering clips and recording ideas using the drum pads/onscreen keyboard (which is brilliant!), touch can be excellent. Touch will never have the accuracy of a mouse(or in my case trackball/Wacom pen) , so you have to play to its strengths.

I can see this eventually replacing my Maschine, as I can pretty much replicate its workflow with Bitwig, but with a lot more control and power. And I can travel with it! Sure I lose the pressure sensitivity and physical controls, but I am pretty jaded with the lack of progress that NI has made over the years with Maschine as I was hoping that it was going turn into a more rounded Live-like DAW.

With differentiating features such as the touch support and Linux support, I am really impressed with the direction Bitwig is going in. Even though I am only using the lowly 8-track version, I can definitely see myself getting onboard with the full version once v2 rolls out, as I really want the modular features

[pdxindy]

I can see this eventually replacing my Maschine, as I can pretty much replicate its workflow with Bitwig, but with a lot more control and power. And I can travel with it! Sure I lose the pressure sensitivity and physical controls, but I am pretty jaded with the lack of progress that NI has made over the years with Maschine as I was hoping that it was going turn into a more rounded Live-like DAW.

For replacing the Mascine, you can get something like the QuNeo... it's the size of a tablet, weighs next to nothing, is basically unbreakable, and makes a fine controller. With you windows tablet, Bitwig and a QuNeo you would have an ultra portable set-up and still have pads with velocity and pressure sensitivity and some physical controls.

[zendorf]

Thanks, I hadn't heard about the QuNeo...looks cool and very affordable. Will go on my "to buy" list as my Maschine goes on the "to sell" list

Gotta love all these cool options, and I still love the idea of just touchscreen Bitwig alone as a great all in one DAW/controller solution, especially with all the cheap touchscreen laptops out there. Bitwig (as is everything else) is a bit too small on my 12" tablet, but it would be amazing on a 15" laptop or hybrid/yoga style device. Just another option I need to try out

[Echoes in the Attic]

I think Bitwig were really smart to make the touch controls. It seems to align with their strategy of providing really interesting new ways of doing things that other DAWs are not doing. There may be some areas where Bitwig hasn't caught up to the DAWs that have been around for a while of course, but ti's smart to be giving Bitiwg an edge over competitors, that's how DAWs distinguish themselves.

And as a user of the touch interface, I think mostly it's pretty cool, however there are a couple things that are missing or don't work too well. Mainly:
-I don't see how to get the right-click context menu for devices (for example to force MPE etc.). Long press doesn't do it on a device.
-The brackets for changing the length of a note or region I find pretty awkward. I don't see why they have to tucked in those awkward places. Might as well have them out beside the dial to grab more easily since it rarely works with one hand. Need two hands on that so give it some space.
-I can't figure out how to set loop lengths graphically be drawing a region (there are ways in menus like set loop by region).
-There should be some awareness of when a stylus is being used. This is important because you can't use a stylus and a hand at the same time so it doesn't make sense to pop open functions that require two fingers when the stylus is used. For example, again the brackets to extend or shorten a midi region. I really wish the pen didn't trigger this touch dial. Or have a slightly different dial for a stylus where you can drag directly to the length adjustment tool. Or leave a space through which you can drag the stylus (or even finger) through to get to it since they are on an angle.
-In the non-tablet view, the tools don't seem to work with a stylus. I hit the erase and it keeps drawing new regions and going back to that tool.

[anttimaatteri]

if i would have a cintiq 24hd touch, instead of the nontouch 24hd infront of me, i would have a blast checking out all those touch features already available (though im not sure bitwig is working correctly with wacom drivers or their touch screens).
i am sure a lot of people planning to buy one for their studio. i would, if i had the money for the upgrade.
there are a lot of cheaper touchscreens too, so its not like theres no options out there.
touch screen doesnt mean its mobile and microsoft only.

imagine studiowork is not bound to mouse actions or keybinds. lots of possibilities there with bitwig. the company is goin the right way.

[viceverser]

I honestly think the Bitwig Devs are brilliant, forward thinking individuals... And I am thankful for their efforts. I understand they don't owe me anything... This is the only community I have taken an interest in, due to the belief in the Devs and their vision.

Fingers crossed that they have gotten the boredom/itch out of their system, and now the focus gets back to basics... I could list ALL the features everyone is asking for, but it would be redundant. They know what's required for the DAW to get up to par... Lets get it happening!

Cheers... V.

Sorry, but this post does not make sense. Dom said adding the touch support did not take a lot of development resources. And while it was added, plenty of other stuff got done. My guess is that the touch support caused the updated Bitwig to be released a bit sooner (due to the MS schedule) than it would have been otherwise.

I can go to the forum of nearly every DAW and there is a big list of all the features users want, annoyed posts about bugs, etc. If Bitwig came out tomorrow with a 1.5 version that had half the features requested by users, 3 weeks from now the feature request list would be just as long as it is now.

In the past month, Bitwig has done some significant bug fixing and there have been some quiet but useful feature additions. It is happening.

Personally, I would like them to keep focusing on bug fixing and optimizations.

Not sure why it didn't make sense?

I don't have any qualms with bug fixing... and am fine with the process of bug fixing. In fact, I think that the choice to create the DAW that doesn't completely collapse and corrupt sessions after a BUG, as the DEV's have done, is brilliant, and takes the stress of bug testing and reporting, for the most part, out of the equation. I find that a regular bug merely requires a click of the Audio Engine button (and a quick bug report send) to keep music making. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!

And although touch doesn't blow my mind, I can see how plenty of people out there could be into it! So it does have a place, and a need for some.
My critique with the situation is not what is necessarily being done, but more so, the order.
Yes, Dom did say that it was easy to make the touch interface... But it is now an added layer of work going forward... the proceeding updates were sprinkled (and will be) with regular bug fixes, and also a number of "fixes" to the touch interface (which means regularly a little bit less work on the core DAW/UI).

Think about it... Every feature from now on, will need time and effort to figure out an additional layer of usability for Touch. When they start adding fades, how will they do it with touch? Will we have to wait till they figure that out before they give us that basic usability feature? (and I would be surprised if there is any other software out there in bitwigs price range that lacks this "feature") or... will they just omit that feature from touch, and then have half the customers request it??? At which point they will start working on it? In effect creating feature demands on top of other feature demands... So who goes first? Basic usability tools? or more usability for Touch?

It gets very mirky and convoluted quickly!
Am I making sense?

Of course I don't know anything with certainty, I am being purely speculative (as is everyone who isn't directly involved with the decision making at Bitwig), And, it bears repeating... I think what these Developers are capable of is nothing short of brilliance, But for me, Post the "Touch" interface, I feel the software is going through fragmentation of sorts, and am seeing (as with these forums) a division in experience.
If the community is now splitting into different users, then there is now distinct different expectations... Where it was previously about how people want to implement a tool or feature, it's now become a discussion about how the entire user experience should move forward... An interesting discussion, but I think seems premature at this point.

Anyway... I may be wrong, and given more information (which doesn't include just an opposing opinion, or second hand "facts") could easily be swayed to being converted. But with the limited information I know at the moment, Whether easy to implement or not, I can't understand (except for a quick cash grab) how Touch UI makes sense this early.

Call me naive, but I thought a company that missed their original release date by over a year, were more interested in getting it right (an ideal I respect immensely), than just getting it out there... Which is all launching for microsoft was!!! Because as of yet, it's not quiet right! (Soon hopefully, but not yet)

Thanks for the responses from all, both for and against. If we keep the conversation alive, it can only keep the DEV's more informed... And that's a good thing.

Cheers... V.

[pdxindy]

Think about it... Every feature from now on, will need time and effort to figure out an additional layer of usability for Touch. When they start adding fades, how will they do it with touch? Will we have to wait till they figure that out before they give us that basic usability feature? (and I would be surprised if there is any other software out there in bitwigs price range that lacks this "feature") or... will they just omit that feature from touch, and then have half the customers request it??? At which point they will start working on it? In effect creating feature demands on top of other feature demands... So who goes first? Basic usability tools? or more usability for Touch?

It gets very mirky and convoluted quickly!
Am I making sense

...

Thanks for the responses from all, both for and against. If we keep the conversation alive, it can only keep the DEV's more informed... And that's a good thing.

Cheers... V.

If it was not a lot of work to add a touch interface, then it seems like it will not be a big resource drain going forward.

But like you said, we do not see the view from inside. I can only go by what Dom said and accept it as so.

I'm not a fan of the touch stuff, but it is very popular and I understand it being added. I dislike it a tiny bit in Bitwig particularly because it breaks the Bitwig vision. Bitwig did not want to add rewire because it was not on all platforms. They did not add AU presumably for the same reason. But now they have made different Bitwig platforms have different functionality.

Well, that is really their business I mainly want them to make Bitwig super solid and reliable and add a few core features and get the MPE stuff completely working with U-he synths.

[anp27]

and get the MPE stuff completely working with U-he synths.

This has already been mentioned and discussed. Urs from u-He says that he is actually waiting for the MIDI Manufacturers Association to take MPE out of beta mode, at the moment they have not yet fully standardized or finalized it. So until that happens, Urs cannot proceed. It is actually on the MMA and Urs right now, not the Bitwig team.