Reason 3.0 announced

[drez]

Well, I think it HAS attracted power users since 2.0 as I don't recall these guys using it at version 1:

The Crystal Method
The Prodigy
Beastie Boys

Do you know them personally to check? You can also add Will Smith to the list, but that doesn't prove anything. Just because someone has made music through other means doesn't make them an advanced computer user. In the Will Smith interview I read, he was talking about making music with computers like it was something new and cutting edge.

If only you could see the irony in that statement!
In other words, like a typical Reason user, he probably was amazed because it looks like "a whole rack of synths".
Perhaps he wondered how they managed to fit all those synths inside that tiny little computer chip...

xg, TCM aren't idiots. They have more gear in the bomb shelter than they know what to do with. They used to be all hardware. They aren't guys with cubase SL and an M-Audio audiophile pumping out albums.

They've been using Macs for years sequencing outboard gear and now softsynths with DP and PT.

You're statement couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact is that they used it because they liked it, and that's just the way it is.

XG, I just realized that I mistook your comment about Will Smith to be about TCM.

I apologize. My mistake.

[lucille]

I stand by my comment: more synths != better sound.
It has more to do with the quality of the oscs and the filters. I really don't think its just more synths and more fx. We'll see I guess. Subtractor is an also ran against the first vsti generation like pro52. Now it is something of anachorism. No combination of reason synths is ever going to rival better vsti's. Would some combination of pro52's
sound better than v-station or imposcar. It seems absurd--yet this is gosphel on the reason board.

The combinator will allow to play multiple modules--but that could be set up in 2.5. The advantage of the combinator is that it will allow for velocity and key splits. There is nothing unique in the combinator--aside from realtime playability and patch portability--that could not be acheived in 2.5.

I also dislike the fact the props didn't go for true midi routing/splitting paradigm instead of the
combinator, which is a sort of a midi splitter. If they had embraced midi routing within reason, then they could have easily integrated cool midi tools like and arp or polyphonic matrix. That would certainly be more in line with a "live" philosophy.

[Warmonger]

I don't know, it seems pretty simple to me. Reason 3.0 is all about making things easier. Yeah, you could do it before. But did you really ever layer 5 synths at one time in 2.5 or before? I've wanted to do so many times, but I couldn't be bothered to go through the MIDI setup, and then have to deal with all the copy and pasting of tracks any time I want to hear a change. It's just not user-friendly. 3.0 is, and so I think layered sounds are going to become more common. Besides, it's not about comparing a Combinator patch to the impOSCar. It's about getting better sounds than were possible before, and I really believe that layering can help to acheive that. I would never say that device grouping could make up for the lack of a screaming filter in any of the Reason devices.

Having said that, the lack of an arpeggiator or chord module is completely mystifying to me. I would have bet some real money that at least one of the two would have made it into 3.0, and with the focus on live performance tools, an arp really is critical.


Back on the subject of workflow, for some people, the changes will really make a difference to the enjoyment they get out of Reason. These people will upgrade. For the others, it's perfectly understandable that 3.0 isn't a very attractive upgrade, and no one should try to convince them that they should buy it. Maybe 3.5 will bring the desired changes for those people; if so, exercise the option to upgrade then.

I just don't see the point in complaining. The Propellerheads know damn well what everyone wants. The biggest problem I have is that they don't let anyone know what their plans are. On the other hand, that allows me to focus on making music. Now, I'm not going to tell you to shut up, stop complaining, and make music, because you have every right to complain. But by now we've heard it all, so why keep repeating ourselves?

Anyway, I'm done defending 3.0 until it's release in January or February.

[DHR53]

I guess it's all how you look at it... If I wanted to buy a really good compressor for Reason, $129 probably would be uh... "reasonable"... If I look at it as the Props completely redesigning the program and charging me $129 that would be a steal! I think everyone is going to have to wait and see how this thing works... Clearly, layering patches is one of the things that makes a workstation hardware synth sound so "monster" ... so it may be a more than meets the eye thing... (Receptor?) ...And what if the sound quality has been greatly improved? that would be really important... I've come to think of Reason as a great sound module, that also has a sequencer, that I can create loops with, or pads, or whatever I need... to that end, bring it on!

[Katanaman]

I love Reason but this update DOES look a bit disappointing. I mean, it took them an eternity to make this update and this is all we get? For the price of the update, it also seems like we don't get enough. In the other hand, perhaps they've updated the rest of the devices too. And if the 3.5 update turns out to be as big as the 2.5 update, it might be very worthwhile. They will update faster from now on, too, apparently... I read somewhere in their .plan files that they changed the code so it would load faster, which means they will be able to work faster as a result.

So Reason 3 isn't all I've been expecting but I'm not necessarily disapponted. I'm positive the next updates will be much better.

[spaceman]

has anyone actually confirmed the changes in the update? are those the final specs for sure?

If not, I don't expect beta testers will be able to talk about it

could it be they have a surprise up their sleeves?

[Sicklecell666]

I'd say 2.5 was pretty slick. I doubt we're seeing all that's gonna be implemeted over the next couple of months.

[spaceman]

I'd say 2.5 was pretty slick. I doubt we're seeing all that's gonna be implemeted over the next couple of months.

indeed.. it's not like the propellerheads have never had a surprise up their sleeves before

[pitchdrifter]

actually the high quality compressor and EQ are extremely useful for reason.
Furthermore, the combinator is just plain genius. It turns reason into a modular environment where you can save module chains as presets, and control these chains in a comfortable way via a clean frontend.
Of course if you're a preset junky and hate experimentation, reason simply isn't for you because all of it's sound generators are without effects and simply sound totally boring alone. But if you understand something about synthesis you'll also know that you *need* to treat sounds with effects to make them come to live.
The same idea is behind the combinator, its a DIY approach and a very powerful one, because you don't have to re-setup everything every time, you can create really complex instruments by combining all the existing modules, and you can call them up again later, not having to set all the wiring up from scratch.

Quite frankly this update is way better than any new synth module could have been. Considering the nature of this website and the abundance of synths, both free and commercial, you'd think people would begin to value quality over quantity.

I for one will be getting that update, and start using reason again *because* of the combinator and the usable quality EQ and compression.

Markus

[spaceman]

actually the high quality compressor and EQ are extremely useful for reason.
Furthermore, the combinator is just plain genius. It turns reason into a modular environment where you can save module chains as presets, and control these chains in a comfortable way via a clean frontend.
Of course if you're a preset junky and hate experimentation, reason simply isn't for you because all of it's sound generators are without effects and simply sound totally boring alone. But if you understand something about synthesis you'll also know that you *need* to treat sounds with effects to make them come to live.
The same idea is behind the combinator, its a DIY approach and a very powerful one, because you don't have to re-setup everything every time, you can create really complex instruments by combining all the existing modules, and you can call them up again later, not having to set all the wiring up from scratch.

Quite frankly this update is way better than any new synth module could have been. Considering the nature of this website and the abundance of synths, both free and commercial, you'd think people would begin to value quality over quantity.

I for one will be getting that update, and start using reason again *because* of the combinator and the usable quality EQ and compression.

Markus

I agree with you.. I was just about to post that I think the mastering addition alone is pretty darn useful, I was never too impressed by the current eq (or vocoder as eq) it desperately needed some better mastering tools. A good filter would be nice as well

I think the combinator will safe you shedloads of time

and 2 synths and a brilliant sampler should really be enough to create any sound you want (although one more would be nice ).. it's up to the user the be creative with them

the reason why I've come back to Reason lately is because I got frustrated by the slow initial setup I always have to go through in Sonar just to get the idea started (even with all kinds of templates and other customisation thingies setup)

I also started to appreciate the fact of being 'limited' in options.. as I said before, I don't really think one's limited in the sound arsenal Reason provides, it's a different limitation, the one that stops you from going to an other synth when you're stuck, and an other one and an other one.. only to end up doing nothing because the synth wasn't the problem but the imagination

[spmadmin]

It has more to do with the quality of the oscs and the filters.

This is spot on. As long as Reason's sound has that thin plastic-like quality, no amount of combinations, routing, mastering fx, or whatever is going to make me use it.

Propellerheads should really work on the osc/filter tech --- maybe buy some tech from Arturia, OhmForce or whoever.

[zircon]

Furthermore, the combinator is just plain genius. It turns reason into a modular environment where you can save module chains as presets, and control these chains in a comfortable way via a clean frontend.

Again, no, it's not genius. Other programs already have this sort of funtionality. In FL, I can quickly and easily bring up a patch of 4 layered Synth1s, and I can control their filter cutoffs with a single knob in unison. Prop is behind the curve.

Also, just layering Subractors and Malstroms still won't create a deep sound. If you're someone who has tinkered with Reaktor, you'll find that you can stack tons of oscillators on one another or run them through 5 filters and 8 envelopes, or whatever, but it doesn't make a difference. Synths like impOSCar, CS-80V, and Pro-53 sound fantastic because of the way their basic components (eg. filters + oscillators) are programmed. It's not because they just have 'more parts' (and they don't usually have many parts). You can combine Subtractors and Malstroms all you want, and you'll create some interesting sounds, but don't expect to hear anything truly unique like the sound of the impOSCar, for instance.

Clearly, layering patches is one of the things that makes a workstation hardware synth sound so "monster"

Definitely not true. The Roland V-Synth, for instance, has a measly 2 oscillators. Yet because of its unique, proprietary (and customizable) routing structure and filter/COSM modules, it sounds nothing like any synth I've heard, digital or otherwise. I believe some workstations by Korg now include some analog architecture to improve the sound, too.

[spaceman]

Furthermore, the combinator is just plain genius. It turns reason into a modular environment where you can save module chains as presets, and control these chains in a comfortable way via a clean frontend.

Again, no, it's not genius. Other programs already have this sort of funtionality. In FL, I can quickly and easily bring up a patch of 4 layered Synth1s, and I can control their filter cutoffs with a single knob in unison. Prop is behind the curve..

well.. you don't have it in Reason now, do you
whether it's a new idea or not, it doesn't make it less useful

but I would wait until the full specs are released to talk about functionality..what the hell do we know what the combinator will be capable of? has anyone used it?

[digitaldoom]

Furthermore, the combinator is just plain genius. It turns reason into a modular environment where you can save module chains as presets, and control these chains in a comfortable way via a clean frontend.

Again, no, it's not genius. Other programs already have this sort of funtionality. In FL, I can quickly and easily bring up a patch of 4 layered Synth1s, and I can control their filter cutoffs with a single knob in unison. Prop is behind the curve.

Also, just layering Subractors and Malstroms still won't create a deep sound. If you're someone who has tinkered with Reaktor, you'll find that you can stack tons of oscillators on one another or run them through 5 filters and 8 envelopes, or whatever, but it doesn't make a difference. Synths like impOSCar, CS-80V, and Pro-53 sound fantastic because of the way their basic components (eg. filters + oscillators) are programmed. It's not because they just have 'more parts' (and they don't usually have many parts). You can combine Subtractors and Malstroms all you want, and you'll create some interesting sounds, but don't expect to hear anything truly unique like the sound of the impOSCar, for instance.

Clearly, layering patches is one of the things that makes a workstation hardware synth sound so "monster"

Definitely not true. The Roland V-Synth, for instance, has a measly 2 oscillators. Yet because of its unique, proprietary (and customizable) routing structure and filter/COSM modules, it sounds nothing like any synth I've heard, digital or otherwise. I believe some workstations by Korg now include some analog architecture to improve the sound, too.

Well you still can't escape the fact that the Combinator will make it easier to use layered sounds. Maybe you could do it previously in FL, but you couldn't in 2.5, which is all that matters to Reason users.

You are right that layering sounds is not the 'only' way to get a monster synth sound. I mean, my Access Virus' Oscillators and Filters sounds ALOT better than Reason's as well as many of the VST's out there. Does that mean that you can't make a fat bass synth using the combinator? No. It's just a different type of sound. And it will be nice to save it as patch this time.

Can Reason sound as fat as some of the amazing hardware synths out there? No.

Can it compete with all the sequencers on the market? No.

Can it sound awesome and be used to create great tracks? Yes.

[pitchdrifter]

Zircon try pressing TAB when you launched reason. Just a hint.

best

Markus