You didn't mind making dissmissive comments about someone elses work did you? Final Mix was created by someone you know, who probably also has feelings.. fair criticism is one thing, but your comments were unfair IMO.Kingston wrote:Why aren't making examples on your OWN material? What you're doing right now is plain bullying, a fair distance closer to evil compared to my (rather bitchy) attitude.IIRs wrote:I still intend to post improved mixes, feel free to sue me.
FinalMix compared to?
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
not as such ...Kingston wrote:yeah, but you were given permission weren't you?pHz wrote:disappointing attitude ... i for one would NOT pull the link TBH ... KVR has a LONG tradition of members playing around with other members 'published' material ... did it myself in mullys sunnydale ending thread yesterday ...
... BTW ... craftism STILL sucks ...
slainterob
overly simply put ... the concept that faffing around over technical aspects of a given work of art (whether it be music / visual / literary / whatever) has a value greater than worrying about the ideas or emotional content therein ...Kingston wrote:what is craftism?
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
When you do, can you signpost the link to both Kingston and you versions so that we can easily compare?IIRs wrote:So in other words, you don't have copyright clearance..
I still intend to post improved mixes
This thread has turned into some really useful, educational and interesting reading. As I mentioned earlier I am considering buying a multidynamics plug at this point, so I have a vested interest in determining whether it would be a good or foolish purchase.
I don't have the experience of either you or Kingston, but I've enjoyed following the debate this far, and would be very keen now to hear some audible examples that illustrate the points made.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
True and a good point there Greg.Lunch Money wrote:Well, you gotta admit, IIRs WAS kind of goading him.
It's a pity that Kingston is not willing for this to be done though in a *confined* way ... if only to prove the points that he has so forcibly made here
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- KVRAF
- 6478 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
how were they unfair? they are damn near scientific when you include the additional clarifications. The facts are even confirmed by several members here.IIRs wrote:You didn't mind making dissmissive comments about someone elses work did you? Final Mix was created by someone you know, who probably also has feelings.. fair criticism is one thing, but your comments were unfair IMO.
Headquest you might have a good point there. With true A/B test at least we'll have the final proof, if he doesn't cheat. I'll probably end up posting my own FinalMix version just to show the phase distortion. (we'll then have the fact to back up the "teaching the meaning of crossover phase distortion")
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I'll tell you what, guys....
I'll give Kingston and IIRs *each* a copy of either an existing song (I'm thinking "Chug Cock" would fit the bill) or a song that's nearly done and which I'd like to have properly mixed/mastered.
Kingston can use HIS prefereed stuff, and IIRs can use Final Mix.
(no, I'm not looking for free mixing/mastering... honest... not even a little...)
I'll give Kingston and IIRs *each* a copy of either an existing song (I'm thinking "Chug Cock" would fit the bill) or a song that's nearly done and which I'd like to have properly mixed/mastered.
Kingston can use HIS prefereed stuff, and IIRs can use Final Mix.
(no, I'm not looking for free mixing/mastering... honest... not even a little...)
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Ok, I accept the challenge! (I don't mind free mastering for you Greg!)
To be honest, these mixes are already compressed far too hard to be further processed: the RMS levels are close to -6dB nearly all the time, which is totally unneccessary IMO..
To be honest, these mixes are already compressed far too hard to be further processed: the RMS levels are close to -6dB nearly all the time, which is totally unneccessary IMO..
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- KVRAF
- 6478 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
I would love to do it, but can we postpone this a bit?
I'm moving house and studio right now to helsinki finland to start a company and to do freelance there. My studio is safely packed and shipping from UK right now. That's why I've had to resort to posting my old music here.
What really sucks is that certain well respected company just started alpha/beta testing a new interesting compressor as well and I can't be a part of it yet.
I'm moving house and studio right now to helsinki finland to start a company and to do freelance there. My studio is safely packed and shipping from UK right now. That's why I've had to resort to posting my old music here.
What really sucks is that certain well respected company just started alpha/beta testing a new interesting compressor as well and I can't be a part of it yet.
Last edited by Kingston on Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Well, even though I was half-joking, the truth is that I've never gotten "Chug Cock" to sound good coming through friends' home stereos. And since it gets requested at parties a LOT, it'd be cool to have a mix that stands at least reasonable OK alongside the rest of the music from commercial CD's.
Even if Kingston's not up to a "mix-off", I'd sure like another mix of that song. <chuckle> You can always PM me if you want.
[edit-- cross-posted so I didn't know Kingston was responding]
Cool. I'm certainly not in any sort of rush at all. Now, the files themselves ARE home-recorded using poor equipment, so that's a real challenge to overcome in the best of situations. So the next question is: How raw do you want it? I can go all the way back to totally unprocessed tracks, or I can simply give you my current stereo mix minus any "fake mastering" treatment it's gotten.
The former would produce a better end result, which is probably only in MY best interest, and the latter would be more true to the spirit of the 'competition' in that you're just trying to fix a bad stereo mix, not do a complete mixdown job. I'm leaning toward the latter as being more fair and true to the spirit of it all, but I don't mind going back to earlier edits and raw files, either.
Greg
Even if Kingston's not up to a "mix-off", I'd sure like another mix of that song. <chuckle> You can always PM me if you want.
[edit-- cross-posted so I didn't know Kingston was responding]
Cool. I'm certainly not in any sort of rush at all. Now, the files themselves ARE home-recorded using poor equipment, so that's a real challenge to overcome in the best of situations. So the next question is: How raw do you want it? I can go all the way back to totally unprocessed tracks, or I can simply give you my current stereo mix minus any "fake mastering" treatment it's gotten.
The former would produce a better end result, which is probably only in MY best interest, and the latter would be more true to the spirit of the 'competition' in that you're just trying to fix a bad stereo mix, not do a complete mixdown job. I'm leaning toward the latter as being more fair and true to the spirit of it all, but I don't mind going back to earlier edits and raw files, either.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 6478 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
I thought we were talking about stereo mastering most of the time anyway, so yeh, stereo mix would be a good starting point.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Your choice Greg, send me an archived edit if you like. 
It looks like Kingston's backing out anyway.. 
It looks like Kingston's backing out anyway.. -
- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Yeah, we have been, Kingston. So forget I even mentioned the "full mixdown" option.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
You accussed Acuma labs of ripping off other products for a start.Kingston wrote:how were they unfair?
FWIW, I agree with some of the technical points you raise, but for one who seems to be happy throwing his weight around, you are getting awfully cagey and defensive when a few people start challenging you.
Your initial stance *was* asking for retaliation. Your whole premise is that free software included with a budget priced sequencer sucks because it doesn't stand up to the awesomeness of the expensive alternatives that you have access to. Bravo! Does it sound as good as the stuff bundled with most other sequencers? In general, I'd say yes it does.
If it works well enough, and allows limited funds to instead be spent on decent EQ, or reverb plugins, even if only inthe short term, it is doing its job. To say otherwise, isn't elitist, it's just plain stupid.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRian
- 1398 posts since 9 Dec, 2002
This is about the first time I've seen a virtual penis comparison go down like this...
And even the teacher isn't playing nicely (that's the first - if person A specifically denies distribution of his work, or derivatives of it... sheesh)
Not to mention that copyright whine, come on
Dunno what kind of subliminally working html equivalent of LSD they've recently added to KVR but this...
The absolutely best part is the obligatory jump-in-the-middle morons misreading parts and trying to achieve something with a level of personal remarks that only go to show the poster is incapable of even reading... Great job
JMH
And even the teacher isn't playing nicely
(that's the first - if person A specifically denies distribution of his work, or derivatives of it... sheesh)Not to mention that copyright whine, come on
Dunno what kind of subliminally working html equivalent of LSD they've recently added to KVR but this...
The absolutely best part is the obligatory jump-in-the-middle morons misreading parts and trying to achieve something with a level of personal remarks that only go to show the poster is incapable of even reading... Great job
JMH
Now available with added Inherently Suspect Justification!
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Which teacher?
Plus... well...
What did YOUR post add to the mix?
This whole thread has gone , you're right about that, jmh. But now you're a PART of it!!
or not, there HAS been information shared, there HAVE been concessions (technical or personal) made, and I might be getting a free 'final mix' of one of my tracks. <laff>
Awesome thread!
Greg
Plus... well...
What did YOUR post add to the mix?
This whole thread has gone
, you're right about that, jmh. But now you're a PART of it!! or not, there HAS been information shared, there HAVE been concessions (technical or personal) made, and I might be getting a free 'final mix' of one of my tracks. <laff>Awesome thread!
Greg