Zebra 3 Public Beta Revision 20399

[JoeLowery215]

MPE Timbre typically maps to CTRL-A for us, so we recommend to set it to CC #74.

We currently do not interpret CCs as bipolar though, which is compatible with the MPE specs even though they encourage bipolar interpretation. We might eventually add this as an option later on.

I know I brought this up before, but especially now that you consider merging Macros with Ctrl (which I think is a good idea) - I'm worried that this approach will cause quite some problems:

With the previous u-he synths, Ctrl A or B were almost always unassigned, so I could use the free slot to assign the Timbre modulations. But with Zebra 3, Ctrl A-D will most likely always be already assigned - like macros had been in the other synths. This is a problem, because it conflates setting up macros (usually unipolar) with setting up Timbre (usually bipolar). Also the intent / effect of a Macro may be totally different from what you want with setting up via Timbre.

Chances are high that Ctrl A-D are already assigned in a way that it doesn't really work for MPE timbre. Most preset authors do not have MPE in mind, nor should they have to. There are also no strong convention / rules how to do this. With an MPE controler setup, I might have to first remove Ctrl modulations to make a patch playable and free it up to use it for Timbre modulation instead.

The solution to this is actually very simple and also done by other MPE Synths: Make Timbre its own modulation source (like you added release velocity, which I think is even more fringe). You could combine both approaches, but I think this alone is simple and sufficient. With explicit Timbre mod source it is also easy to understand which patches have been setup for MPE explicitly. Most patches won't have this, but it's less work to set up timbre modulations myself than having to first fix / clean up an existing patch to make it playable with my MPE controller just to get started.

He hasn't actually added release velocity yet what you are calling release velocity is actually a release gate I know because urs told me he would add release velocity later and I want to tell you also release velocity isn't fringe its Awesome I use it on surge so i don't have to bother trying to record MPE witch is a total Nightmare in my opinion I typically map the normal velocity to shorten the main envelope attack and I use the release velocity to lengthen the release if anyone is wondering how to use release velocity and why you would this is the best way to use it and you use it for wind instruments and other sustaining leads if your too clumsy to record with an MPE keyboard. its fun Awesome and when used in combination with a macro knob that you can automate in the daw (global intensity knob) replaces pressure for those in need of such a thing because they are either too clumsy to record live or have no ability to keep time (I fall in both these camps). only a few synths support release velocity as of yet hear is I list of ones I know Surge XT, UVIFalcon, PhasePlant, and I hope to god that zebra 3 will get it soon. The daws that support for composing with release velocity best are Reaper and Ableton live. Bitwig has support for it but its a bit non standard (I now use reaper because I need something that's going to be around for ever and my synth I currently use is surge XT once zebra three gets release velocity I will probably switch to that) so yah its not fringe its just most people have never tried it because there is not much information on the web about how to use it. Using it dose not make you a dweeb it just means you like pressure articulations without the headache of real MPE pressure and the absolute hell that is trying to compose with it by hand.

Wait I’m confused reading this, are you using an MPE keyboard? Sounds like you’re not right? If you’re using a knob why not just map the knob to release? Y

[Matty686]

MPE Timbre typically maps to CTRL-A for us, so we recommend to set it to CC #74.

We currently do not interpret CCs as bipolar though, which is compatible with the MPE specs even though they encourage bipolar interpretation. We might eventually add this as an option later on.

I know I brought this up before, but especially now that you consider merging Macros with Ctrl (which I think is a good idea) - I'm worried that this approach will cause quite some problems:

With the previous u-he synths, Ctrl A or B were almost always unassigned, so I could use the free slot to assign the Timbre modulations. But with Zebra 3, Ctrl A-D will most likely always be already assigned - like macros had been in the other synths. This is a problem, because it conflates setting up macros (usually unipolar) with setting up Timbre (usually bipolar). Also the intent / effect of a Macro may be totally different from what you want with setting up via Timbre.

Chances are high that Ctrl A-D are already assigned in a way that it doesn't really work for MPE timbre. Most preset authors do not have MPE in mind, nor should they have to. There are also no strong convention / rules how to do this. With an MPE controler setup, I might have to first remove Ctrl modulations to make a patch playable and free it up to use it for Timbre modulation instead.

The solution to this is actually very simple and also done by other MPE Synths: Make Timbre its own modulation source (like you added release velocity, which I think is even more fringe). You could combine both approaches, but I think this alone is simple and sufficient. With explicit Timbre mod source it is also easy to understand which patches have been setup for MPE explicitly. Most patches won't have this, but it's less work to set up timbre modulations myself than having to first fix / clean up an existing patch to make it playable with my MPE controller just to get started.

He hasn't actually added release velocity yet what you are calling release velocity is actually a release gate I know because urs told me he would add release velocity later and I want to tell you also release velocity isn't fringe its Awesome I use it on surge so i don't have to bother trying to record MPE witch is a total Nightmare in my opinion I typically map the normal velocity to shorten the main envelope attack and I use the release velocity to lengthen the release if anyone is wondering how to use release velocity and why you would this is the best way to use it and you use it for wind instruments and other sustaining leads if your too clumsy to record with an MPE keyboard. its fun Awesome and when used in combination with a macro knob that you can automate in the daw (global intensity knob) replaces pressure for those in need of such a thing because they are either too clumsy to record live or have no ability to keep time (I fall in both these camps). only a few synths support release velocity as of yet hear is I list of ones I know Surge XT, UVIFalcon, PhasePlant, and I hope to god that zebra 3 will get it soon. The daws that support for composing with release velocity best are Reaper and Ableton live. Bitwig has support for it but its a bit non standard (I now use reaper because I need something that's going to be around for ever and my synth I currently use is surge XT once zebra three gets release velocity I will probably switch to that) so yah its not fringe its just most people have never tried it because there is not much information on the web about how to use it. Using it dose not make you a dweeb it just means you like pressure articulations without the headache of real MPE pressure and the absolute hell that is trying to compose with it by hand.

Wait I’m confused reading this, are you using an MPE keyboard? Sounds like you’re not right? If you’re using a knob why not just map the knob to release? Y

that could work but release velocity is per note and is designed to do this job

[Ghul]

Hello,

I was wondering whether ModMapper can be used as a trigger or gate source for envelopes or the exciter.

The idea would be to draw a stepped pattern in ModMapper, drive it with a synced LFO (phasor-style), and use the ModMapper output to retrigger an envelope – essentially acting like a simple internal step sequencer while holding a single note.

Is this currently a supported workflow, or are envelope triggers strictly tied to note-on events?

[PieBerger]

Hello,

I was wondering whether ModMapper can be used as a trigger or gate source for envelopes or the exciter.

The idea would be to draw a stepped pattern in ModMapper, drive it with a synced LFO (phasor-style), and use the ModMapper output to retrigger an envelope – essentially acting like a simple internal step sequencer while holding a single note.

Is this currently a supported workflow, or are envelope triggers strictly tied to note-on events?

You can already do this! Just choose Mapper1-4 from the source menu in the envelope module

[JoeLowery215]

Hello,

I was wondering whether ModMapper can be used as a trigger or gate source for envelopes or the exciter.

The idea would be to draw a stepped pattern in ModMapper, drive it with a synced LFO (phasor-style), and use the ModMapper output to retrigger an envelope – essentially acting like a simple internal step sequencer while holding a single note.

Is this currently a supported workflow, or are envelope triggers strictly tied to note-on events?

You can already do this! Just choose Mapper1-4 from the source menu in the envelope module

Isn’t he asking if a Modmapper can be used as an envelope?

[PieBerger]

Hello,

I was wondering whether ModMapper can be used as a trigger or gate source for envelopes or the exciter.

The idea would be to draw a stepped pattern in ModMapper, drive it with a synced LFO (phasor-style), and use the ModMapper output to retrigger an envelope – essentially acting like a simple internal step sequencer while holding a single note.

Is this currently a supported workflow, or are envelope triggers strictly tied to note-on events?

You can already do this! Just choose Mapper1-4 from the source menu in the envelope module

Isn’t he asking if a Modmapper can be used as an envelope?

No he's asking if the Mappers can be used as a trigger source for the envelopes or exciter, which they can be

[jtsterays]

Could you guys do a tutorial on the ModMath? I kinda know what the modes do but I don't really know a lot of situations where this would be really beneficial, some examples would be great.

[Ghul]

Hello,

I was wondering whether ModMapper can be used as a trigger or gate source for envelopes or the exciter.

The idea would be to draw a stepped pattern in ModMapper, drive it with a synced LFO (phasor-style), and use the ModMapper output to retrigger an envelope – essentially acting like a simple internal step sequencer while holding a single note.

Is this currently a supported workflow, or are envelope triggers strictly tied to note-on events?

You can already do this! Just choose Mapper1-4 from the source menu in the envelope module

Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I already tried that: loading ModMapper directly as the envelope source.
I set ModMapper to Mod Quantize, used 8 steps, drew a gate-like pattern (every second step high), and drove it with a synced saw LFO scanning through the bins.

However, in this setup the envelope still only triggers when the long MIDI note itself is triggered in the DAW. It doesn’t seem to retrigger the envelope continuously as a gate/trigger source.

Is there a detail I overlooked?

[Urs]

Is there a detail I overlooked?

The Mappers are bipolar. They trigger when they go from a value below zero to a value above zero.

In the arpeggiator video there's a Mapper that has the first step all the way up and further steps below zero exactly for that purpose. From 2:31

[Frantz]

I tried making a Zebra patch from the init patch yesterday. I spent a couple minutes trying to figure out how to add an LFO and then retreated to the simplicity of Hive where it is all there for you. I certainly could have read the manual but didn't want to spend time on that which would have taken me out of the music making flow. I mentioning this because I do think there is a bit of a Zebra learning curve which will scare off many users. Perhaps it is unavoidable given the power and flexibility of Zebra?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I tried making a Zebra patch from the init patch yesterday. I spent a couple minutes trying to figure out how to add an LFO and then retreated to the simplicity of Hive where it is all there for you. I certainly could have read the manual but didn't want to spend time on that which would have taken me out of the music making flow. I mentioning this because I do think there is a bit of a Zebra learning curve which will scare off many users. Perhaps it is unavoidable given the power and flexibility of Zebra?

At the bottom of the GUI, you'll see a row of text starting with like MW, PB, AT, etc. There's an LFO section with 1, 2, 3, 4 there. Just pick an LFO and click and drag it to the desired control you want to modulate. The LFO will controls will automatically appear in the modulation panel.

Maybe a + icon or something in the Modulator panel to add modulators first, then assign would be more intuitive and obvious, but the Z3 way is faster once you know about it.

I think they decided to sacrifice simplicity [like having an "add modulators" icon] for pure efficiency in some areas, with this being an example.

[Frantz]

I tried making a Zebra patch from the init patch yesterday. I spent a couple minutes trying to figure out how to add an LFO and then retreated to the simplicity of Hive where it is all there for you. I certainly could have read the manual but didn't want to spend time on that which would have taken me out of the music making flow. I mentioning this because I do think there is a bit of a Zebra learning curve which will scare off many users. Perhaps it is unavoidable given the power and flexibility of Zebra?

At the bottom of the GUI, you'll see a row of text starting with like MW, PB, AT, etc. There's an LFO section with 1, 2, 3, 4 there. Just pick an LFO and click and drag it to the desired control you want to modulate. The LFO will controls will automatically appear in the modulation panel.

Ahhh, thanks! Will try this later.

[Fannon]

So you can quickly remove and reassign targets, or swap between two modulators altogether. Wanna swap Ctrl A and ModWheel? - One click.

(Target Finder is an experimental thing where we visually point out the targets of a modulations source while hovering the draggable source)

This is very nice and will make this much easier to handle - thank you!

[NAD]

Wanna swap Ctrl A and ModWheel? - One click.

That's definitely gonna come in handy.

[Frantz]

There's an LFO section with 1, 2, 3, 4 there. Just pick an LFO and click and drag it to the desired control you want to modulate. The LFO will controls will automatically appear in the modulation panel.

Thanks, I do see how to use LFOs and the mod matrix now.

I still think the UI is a bit confusing. The label under the Oscillator knob I circled is "Tune" but the LFO target and tool tip refer to it as "Osc1 Pitch."

It's also unfortunate that the knob seems to be equidistant between the "Phase" and "Tune" labels. So you need to spend a few moments to workout that the labels are below the controls. I guess space is at a premium.

Then there is the mysterious "Pitch Mod Src" which, when set to LFO 1, does nothing. This time I searched the manual for "Pitch Mod Src" and found nothing. I guess Zebra taming is a project in itself.

zebra1.png