Bargain Center: discussion, gossip, etc.

[Harry_HH]

Plugin-Alliance is quickly becoming like Waves for effects sale...

It seems that way, but, I didn't know much about them really until recently. I do treat them the same way that I treat Waves. That said, like Waves, I've spent money with them. I don't care what retail price you slap on something, if you get it into my perceived value window for the given technology, I'll pick it up.

I don't like to use vouchers for free things though. I wish there had been something else that I wanted.

What *is* the actual value of Waves plugins. Does anyone actually pay sticker price for those things? Most of their plugins seem to be really old.

The reason many of their plugins are old is the fact that they started early Waves was one of the first professional music plugin software developers. Their portfolio of plugins is enormous, on the other hand they keep launching regularely, every year new quality (some more, some less) products.

Waves has used different pricing/marketing strategies during the past 25 years. You may see things only from the short period of time.

What is the 'actual value' if their products depends on
- you, how much you are willing to pay and if you can you use them, make value of them
- markets, general price level
- competition, other developers quality/products
- general opinion, incl. media and critics
- development of the music industry, technology and project studios

[dzilizzi]

What *is* the actual value of Waves plugins. Does anyone actually pay sticker price for those things? Most of their plugins seem to be really old.

They add a few new ones each year, so some are probably more valuable than others.

But yeah, that is why you buy bundles rather than single plugs for the most part.

[ghettosynth]

Plugin-Alliance is quickly becoming like Waves for effects sale...

It seems that way, but, I didn't know much about them really until recently. I do treat them the same way that I treat Waves. That said, like Waves, I've spent money with them. I don't care what retail price you slap on something, if you get it into my perceived value window for the given technology, I'll pick it up.

I don't like to use vouchers for free things though. I wish there had been something else that I wanted.

What *is* the actual value of Waves plugins. Does anyone actually pay sticker price for those things? Most of their plugins seem to be really old.

For the newer modeling plugins $20 to $40 if you don't need it quickly, $100 if you do. For the older plugins, e.g., those in the renn bundle, $5 to $10 if you don't need it quickly, or $20 to $30 if you do.

This is what I pay. I believe that I've paid more than $40 for a Waves plugin exactly once, and that was because I was super excited about that particular plugin. Even then, I only paid about $70 which is the most that I've ever paid for any single Waves plugin.

If you are using them to add flavors, which is what I do, then which particular flavor you get this month isn't that important, so I look for the good plugins among the sales. All of the high end modeling plugins go on sale regularly for about $100, so if you need one of those and can wait a reasonable amount of time, you can get it at that price. They also get featured in big sales for around $50 or less, often with coupon, but that happens much less often. The JJP EQ was $29 this last black Friday, for example. I passed on it at the time, but, if I really wanted it, I would have picked it up at that price. I did pick up the RS56 EQ for, IIRC, about the same price.

This is based on my perception, purchase history, and frequent monitoring of their sales over the past three or four years or so.

[dangayle]

For the newer modeling plugins $20 to $40 if you don't need it quickly, $100 if you do. For the older plugins, e.g., those in the renn bundle, $5 to $10 if you don't need it quickly, or $20 to $30 if you do.

...

This is based on my perception, purchase history, and frequent monitoring of their sales over the past three or four years or so.

Man, what a great answer. I didn't mean to come across as harsh in my question, I was being literal. You answered literally, which is exactly what I was questioning.

[dzilizzi]

For me, I upgraded from Gold to Mercury for about $1K when they were doing major discounts on the native plugs before they discontinued the Native/TDM version for the current one size fits all. So for me it is now, is it included in Mercury? And what kind of deal are they going to give me for the WUP to make it worth my while to pay for the update. And whether I want to buy any Abbey Road stuff.

I haven't actually seen Mercury that low since. And really? I probably use only half of the plugs in it.

[ghettosynth]

For the newer modeling plugins $20 to $40 if you don't need it quickly, $100 if you do. For the older plugins, e.g., those in the renn bundle, $5 to $10 if you don't need it quickly, or $20 to $30 if you do.

...

This is based on my perception, purchase history, and frequent monitoring of their sales over the past three or four years or so.

Man, what a great answer. I didn't mean to come across as harsh in my question, I was being literal. You answered literally, which is exactly what I was questioning.

Yeah, I thought that you wanted an actual answer to the question with respect to what people pay over time. I get some grief for my attitude towards the value of plugins in general, but, on average, it has been very consistent.

[malachy5]

I've only dropped in to see if Satan has any special offers tonight.

[incubus]

I've only dropped in to see if Satan has any special offers tonight.

Only if you make a significant sacrifice.

[machinesworking]

$50 to upgrade Geist to Geist 2? Finally, this is one I've been waiting for.

IMO, and I know it's just an opinion, but FXpansion would have gotten a lot more money from me if they didn't offer their upgrades at near the same price as their introductory prices. I bought GURU when it came out, and Geist upgrade was not much better than introductory price. I actually bought a separate license to Geist because the upgrade was more expensive than a sale later in the year...

Now, I have Maschine, SparkLE, Push 2, hardware along with software drum machines. I'll probably get Geist 2 at this price, but because it didn't have dedicated hardware and Spark came with the V Collection, I just picked up SprkLE hardware for the same price as the upgrade to Geist 2 cost..

It's a shame really, I think in terms of the sequencer FXPansion beat all of them, but it would be nice if there was dedicated hardware and great upgrade offers. Better late than never I guess.

[dangayle]

$50 to upgrade Geist to Geist 2? Finally, this is one I've been waiting for.

IMO, and I know it's just an opinion, but FXpansion would have gotten a lot more money from me if they didn't offer their upgrades at near the same price as their introductory prices.

I bought the upgrade just so I could flip the whole package. Spend $50 to make $80.

[jezjez]

50% off Wave Alchemy Drum Tools 02 - http://www.wavealchemy.co.uk/drum-tools-02/pid165/

I bought this a month ago and the quality really is excellent!

WA7ME2BD62 gets you an extra 10% off. (not an affiliate code as far as I know, just found it on a random coupon site after googling for wave alchemy coupons)

[ghettosynth]

For the newer modeling plugins $20 to $40 if you don't need it quickly, $100 if you do. For the older plugins, e.g., those in the renn bundle, $5 to $10 if you don't need it quickly, or $20 to $30 if you do.

...

This is based on my perception, purchase history, and frequent monitoring of their sales over the past three or four years or so.

Man, what a great answer. I didn't mean to come across as harsh in my question, I was being literal. You answered literally, which is exactly what I was questioning.

Yeah, I thought that you wanted an actual answer to the question with respect to what people pay over time. I get some grief for my attitude towards the value of plugins in general, but, on average, it has been very consistent.

So today's special is a good example. Kramer tape retails for $249, on sale for $69. It was on sale at that price at year end last year. It was recently on sale for $99 (Feb 18th). It shows up multiple times in 2015 on sale for $100 or less. The Tapes Tubes and Transistors bundle was $149 in 2015 at least once.

It was $49 in 2013 when it was on sale for $99 with a $50 coupon. Each of the other plugins were on sale for $79 so you could have had the whole bundle for about $100 with vendor discounts. In 2014 there was a one day sale in April where you could get Kramer Tape for $29.

So, there you go. A real life example that supports my observations fairly closely. You can regularly purchase Kramer Tape for around $100, you probably will only have to wait at most a month or two. If you're patient, however, you can get it for about $40 with vendor discounts, or, even less if you're super patient.

So IMO, the best way to buy Waves stuff, assuming that you're not going to buy their mega-bundles, is to buy the modeling plugins as they go on super sale. This implies, of course, that you're buying them based on desire, not on need.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Gold regularly goes on sale for about $140 or so during sale season. So, if you have any inclination towards Gold, it's probably best not to buy any plugins that are in gold as your upgrade price will seldom (if ever) be better than the sale price.

[greenfly]

For the newer modeling plugins $20 to $40 if you don't need it quickly, $100 if you do. For the older plugins, e.g., those in the renn bundle, $5 to $10 if you don't need it quickly, or $20 to $30 if you do.

...

This is based on my perception, purchase history, and frequent monitoring of their sales over the past three or four years or so.

Man, what a great answer. I didn't mean to come across as harsh in my question, I was being literal. You answered literally, which is exactly what I was questioning.

Yeah, I thought that you wanted an actual answer to the question with respect to what people pay over time. I get some grief for my attitude towards the value of plugins in general, but, on average, it has been very consistent.

So today's special is a good example. Kramer tape retails for $249, on sale for $69. It was on sale at that price at year end last year. It was recently on sale for $99 (Feb 18th). It shows up multiple times in 2015 on sale for $100 or less. The Tapes Tubes and Transistors bundle was $149 in 2015 at least once.

It was $49 in 2013 when it was on sale for $99 with a $50 coupon. Each of the other plugins were on sale for $79 so you could have had the whole bundle for about $100 with vendor discounts. In 2014 there was a one day sale in April where you could get Kramer Tape for $29.

So, there you go. A real life example that supports my observations fairly closely. You can regularly purchase Kramer Tape for around $100, you probably will only have to wait at most a month or two. If you're patient, however, you can get it for about $40 with vendor discounts, or, even less if you're super patient.

So IMO, the best way to buy Waves stuff, assuming that you're not going to buy their mega-bundles, is to buy the modeling plugins as they go on super sale. This implies, of course, that you're buying them based on desire, not on need.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Gold regularly goes on sale for about $140 or so during sale season. So, if you have any inclination towards Gold, it's probably best not to buy any plugins that are in gold as your upgrade price will seldom (if ever) be better than the sale price.

....or just buy the excellent ToneBoosters Reelbus for a one time low price. It's all swings and roundabouts and I have to admit I do appreciate vendors like TB who offer quality products at sensible prices.


I agree with your earlier analysis. I worked out the other day my total cost at Plugin Alliance over the years I have been buying their plugins. I have 38 of their plugins, pretty much 80-90% of each of their section, dynamics, eq etc. The only plugins I don't buy from them are the ones for guitar processing but I have most of the others. I reckon on average I paid $19 a plugin from PA, but the trick is too be patient, bide your time and take advantage of custom bundle discounts when a heap of them go on sale.

[AegisPrime]

....or just buy the excellent ToneBoosters Reelbus for a one time low price. It's all swings and roundabouts and I have to admit I do appreciate vendors like TB who offer quality products at sensible prices.

I definitely prefer to support the smaller devs like ToneBoosters when I can - they tend to have less onerous licensing schemes too which is always appreciated.

[Scotty]

I totally agree. FXpansion upgrade pricing must be hurting their bottom line. I had BFD 2 and paid a lot for it but with their upgrade prices being so expensive I invested in XLN Addictive drums and never looked back. That is not typical for me. Once I invest in a product and learn it I usually stick with it. BFD 2 sits abandoned in my account while I continuously add libraries to Addictive Drums not to mention their trigger products as well.

$50 to upgrade Geist to Geist 2? Finally, this is one I've been waiting for.

IMO, and I know it's just an opinion, but FXpansion would have gotten a lot more money from me if they didn't offer their upgrades at near the same price as their introductory prices.

I bought the upgrade just so I could flip the whole package. Spend $50 to make $80.