KVR Audio

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:20 pm

pottering wrote:Seems to me all this discussion hinges on whether one thinks M4L sucks or is awesome. I think it is awesome and use it all the time.

Not at all! I think we all agree M4L is extremely useful and powerful, more so than Bitwig currently is (though it costs twice as much to get there...). What we "complain" about, is that one needs to run it in the bcakground with all the additional CPU & RAM hit or the UI for cabling and scripting, etc. even if it's just a basic LFO or Envolope Follower that we're after.

Can we agree on that?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:12 am

pottering wrote:And is BW's easier really? Looking at BW's site (https://www.bitwig.com/en/community/lea ... orial.html) it looks like it needs a similar number of steps to set up as using a M4L device.

You click a slot, then select a modulator from a big list, then click the "assign" button in the modulator, then click the parameter you want modulated.

With M4L, you add a modulation device anywhere, select the parameter from a drop down list (some devices let you pick parameters from devices in other tracks), or click a "map" button (just like "assign" in BW) and click the parameter you want to modulate in the VST's GUI. Not that much harder.

Yes, Bitwig is easier in real world use. You haven't used it so that is a fair question to ask.

Over on the left info panel, you see whatever modulators are assigned to the selected device. In this case, a Polysynth. It lists the Modulators, and shows what parameters it is modulating (I made a bunch of random assignments). You can adjust the range, and delete any. If you click the arrow, you can then click drag on any additional parameters in the Polysynth (or nested devices) to add them as mod targets.

Fast and visual for seeing and editing complex modulations setups. It also keeps the device bar at the bottom clean. In this image, I just have the modulators hidden

In addition, every device (native or VST) has its own device panels and preset panels. Create as many as you want in a fast visual way. You can add any sort of knob, button, switch and control macros, modulators, parameters, etc. Got a favorite set of modulators for a delay? Set up those modulators, create a preset panel, and save as device default.

And it is all integral and built into the core of Bitwig.

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:16 am

That's really neat and all but this is still a thread about Ableton Live 10, Bitwig have their own forum here so you can use that to chat about it's features.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:10 am

.jon wrote:That's really neat and all but this is still a thread about Ableton Live 10, Bitwig have their own forum here so you can use that to chat about it's features.

The discussion has been about comparing modulation in Live and Bitwig and why some people would like native modulators in Live... a discussion you have yourself participated in.

Plus of course there is no actual information about Live 10, so nothing to talk about in this thread until there is... except to speculate about what people might like added... which often includes what people like in other DAW's that they would like to see added to Live.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:30 pm

So apart from a few guys which are now debating what was debate in the first place - do we have any new leaks or pics?

Is there anything even remotely new (these so called leaks tell me this is some sort of early beta or Ableton in fact did not changed anything major)?

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:33 pm

kmonkey wrote:So apart from a few guys which are now debating what was debate in the first place - do we have any new leaks or pics?

Is there anything even remotely new (these so called leaks tell me this is some sort of early beta or Ableton in fact did not changed anything major)?

No

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:28 pm

kmonkey wrote:So apart from a few guys which are now debating what was debate in the first place - do we have any new leaks or pics?

Is there anything even remotely new (these so called leaks tell me this is some sort of early beta or Ableton in fact did not changed anything major)?

wow, aren't we demanding ...

so ... new leaks or pics ... presumably you mean besides all the stuff included in the Original Post, right ?
well listen, I'm trying to make it very easy for people by keeping the OP updated with respect any additional 'new leaks or pics' ... so all you have to do is check the OP, no need to fraternise with the great unwashed down here in the depths of the thread, where insane things like lively debate, feature wishlists and so on are taking place.

these 'so called leaks' are in fact 'leaks' btw ... i mean, I'm very sorry that they're not as meaty as you'd wish. I'll try harder next time, boss.

just check in on the original post to see if there's any new news, not just the old new news, but new new news.... I'll be keeping it up to date. And of course I'll be editing the subject of the thread when it makes sense.

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:35 pm

.jon wrote:That's really neat and all but this is still a thread about Ableton Live 10, Bitwig have their own forum here so you can use that to chat about it's features.

ya guys, stop making this guys obstinate attitude towards native modulators in DAWs look as asinine as it is, by, like, chatting about a DAW that's doing it very effectively in a way that we'd like LIVE 10 to do also, or come somewhere close to doing. That's, like, not fair. Isn't it, like, against the forum rules to respond to someone's hot air with tactics like this ? If it's not it should be!

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:57 pm

I know what this thread needs to really get going:

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:08 pm

A hairy frog?

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:10 pm

Daags wrote: ya guys, stop making this guys obstinate attitude towards native modulators in DAWs look as asinine as it is, by, like, chatting about a DAW that's doing it very effectively in a way that we'd like LIVE 10 to do also, or come somewhere close to doing. That's, like, not fair. Isn't it, like, against the forum rules to respond to someone's hot air with tactics like this ? If it's not it should be!

You're the only one blowing hot air mate. Bitwig is a perfectly good DAW, so simply use that if your music absolutely requires DAW modulation. Crying your heart out here for them to be added to Live does exactly nothing

Just accept the fact that not everybody need native LFOs. Or maybe they are already on the way, so you can move on crying about some other irrelevant little missing feature that prevents you from finishing tracks.

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:38 pm

Live is a great DAW. I'm really hoping they address some of most popular requests without making it more complex to use, as has happened with so many others. Remember when Studio One advertised as "power without complexity"?

Daags · Post by **Daags** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:33 pm

.jon wrote:
Daags wrote: ya guys, stop making this guys obstinate attitude towards native modulators in DAWs look as asinine as it is, by, like, chatting about a DAW that's doing it very effectively in a way that we'd like LIVE 10 to do also, or come somewhere close to doing. That's, like, not fair. Isn't it, like, against the forum rules to respond to someone's hot air with tactics like this ? If it's not it should be!
You're the only one blowing hot air mate. Bitwig is a perfectly good DAW, so simply use that if your music absolutely requires DAW modulation. Crying your heart out here for them to be added to Live does exactly nothing

Just accept the fact that not everybody need native LFOs. Or maybe they are already on the way, so you can move on crying about some other irrelevant little missing feature that prevents you from finishing tracks.

no one was crying until you arrived

and now you're crying that BitWig's native modulators are being used to address your crying ... lol, what is that ... meta-crying ?

Maybe you should just accept the fact that some people want native modulators in LIVE 10, and your persistent crying to the contrary has been roundly, and effectively, tossed in the shitcan where it belongs.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:50 pm

How about we wait for Live Max ... with full, seamless integration of Max and its modulation plugins?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:13 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:How about we wait for Live Max ... with full, seamless integration of Max and its modulation plugins?

that is a dream for many!

will Live get there first?

or will Bitwig get their modular framework fully open to users first?

Ableton LIVE 10 ... Officially Announced. (plus: Buy LIVE 9 now with 20% discount, get LIVE 10 free)