Waves Scheps Omni Channel

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

[snip...].

So no, I don't want to write instrumental music. It's like telling somebody who wants to be a ballet dancer, why not become a tap dancer? It's easier. If they have no desire to be a tap dancer they might as well not do anything at all because they're not going to be happy being a tap dancer.

That's the best analogy I can give you.

Wag, you succumbed. Remember, after you post your music to KVR you have to resist, on the pain of death, not to reply to people's posts about it, especially on KVR. Your music is fine. Let it be. Don't feed into these trolls. And for those that troll you if they have their music posted just go listen to it, it will give you some good context for the comments you are getting (eg. are they doing anything better?)

Can we get this thread back on topic?

Yup! Post whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want, and then absolutely refuse to get into any conversation about said posting

[plexuss]

Just dont reply to the trolls. or even any comment made about your music. there are lots of people that just want to feed the fire they are trying to start. really just let it be with them. they arent worth your time and effort.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Honestly. I just wanted them to hear Scheps and what it sounded like.

But it fails in that regard. Without any context (Ideally an A/B comparison to a pre- fx mix, or a totally different set of effects), there is no way of telling what role the channel strip is playing.

[wagtunes]

Just dont reply to the trolls. or even any comment made about your music. there are lots of people that just want to feed the fire they are trying to start. really just let it be with them. they arent worth your time and effort.

Yeah, but they sure know how to get under your skin.

Anyway, I'm going to go back through this thread and see if there's anything you shared about this plugin as I respect your opinion.

[plexuss]

Dont reply wag. Hold back. The trolls have revealed themselves and are baiting now. Walk away.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

"Let's blast Wagtune's music to death because that's what we love to do around here" session.

Stop whining. I think I managed to compliment your music a couple of times in this thread, and suggesting that your use of Vocaloid is spoiling the foundations you've laid.

So, think of us as trolls as you wish. Just be prepared that if you are going to keep song-bombing every thread, apropos of nothing, that some folk call you out on it.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Dont reply wag. Hold back. The trolls have revealed themselves and are baiting now. Walk away.

Yeah Wags! Be a good little boy...Walk away

[JJ_Jettflow]

Dont reply wag. Hold back. The trolls have revealed themselves and are baiting now. Walk away.

Yeah Wags! Be a good little boy...Walk away

Hey better yet, why don't you and the other critics of Wags' music post some of your own stuff so we can hear it and then critique it?

[gas pump]

Finding "anyone" to sing on your songs isn't the answer, it's about finding a great performer that knows how to emote emotion through vocal technique and singing experience. And most importantly, it is about connecting and relating to the song lyrics and being able to convey them truthfully. Also having a unique and stylistic delivery.

Exactly!!!! You made my point better than I did

And that is why Vocaloid is never going to be the answer; not even as an 'It'll do' substitute

There is no one size fits all, one way of doing things. That would get boring rather quickly.

Why does it have to be a substitute? There are plenty of "bad singers" that have used every tool in the book to get the sound they envisioned. I see hurdles as either finding a way to jump them or living with the excuses.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Dont reply wag. Hold back. The trolls have revealed themselves and are baiting now. Walk away.

Yeah Wags! Be a good little boy...Walk away

Hey better yet, why don't you and the other critics of Wags' music post some of your own stuff so we can hear it and then critique it?

Either you haven't read the thread or English is not your native language. Given our previous smooth dealings on the KVR marketplace, I'm going to assume it's the former.

To save you the hassle, I'll sum it up for you:

I happen to believe that Wags' use of Vocaloid ruins what I think are generally good pieces of music. A perfect example would be his prog. rock work, which aside from the fact that he just kinda threw it's real potential away, was ruined with that Vocaloid crap. And for the heinous crimes against Howard Jones, I will no longer click on his song links.

Now, it's very important to realise at this point that criticising Vocaloid for being crap is no slight on Steven, nor his talent. So why he and everyone else is taking that as some personal affront is for y'all to decide.

All I tried to encourage him to do was stop ruining a good foundation by having little interest in the Vocal presentation - A huge factor which seems to be stopping a lot of people appreciating his music. I'm paraphrasing, but I mentioned gourmet chef's ruining their creations by drowning them in ketchup. Not an analogy I would use if I wanted to just troll or unnecessarily criticise his work.

As for my music: I could bore you to tears with everything I thought was wrong with it That's probably why I have all but stopped making any. But hey, I don't mind you having a listen. I may not be comfortable song-bombing every thread, but I am not hiding it either. Just click on my signature, and fill yer boots

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Finding "anyone" to sing on your songs isn't the answer, it's about finding a great performer that knows how to emote emotion through vocal technique and singing experience. And most importantly, it is about connecting and relating to the song lyrics and being able to convey them truthfully. Also having a unique and stylistic delivery.

Exactly!!!! You made my point better than I did

And that is why Vocaloid is never going to be the answer; not even as an 'It'll do' substitute

There is no one size fits all, one way of doing things. That would get boring rather quickly.

Why does it have to be a substitute? There are plenty of "bad singers" that have used every tool in the book to get the sound they envisioned. I see hurdles as either finding a way to jump them or living with the excuses.

I said it is a substitute in THIS context, because I knew that Wag's sees it that way (He re-confirmed that in this thread). He would much rather be able to sing, with all the qualities you mentioned, or at least be able to find someone who he's able to work with that can also impart the same qualities of tone, expression, lyrical connection on his work.

That has nothing to do with the fact that there may be many forms of music for which Vocaloid is perfectly suited, or even designed for. The fact is that the technology still isn't good enough to replace a vocalist where even a very limited range of expression and human-ness is preferred.

Of course, there are many tricks employed by musicians and producers to help sub-par talent/performances. I don't really have any problem with the journey people take, I am just speaking to the results. I am not opposed to the use of Vocaloid out of some misplaced romantic notion that computer synthesis could never replace the beautiful natural instrument that is the voice. No! I am opposed to it because, outside of a few genres, it sounds like shit (Bad tonality, terrible phrasing/metering, and zero connection to the lyrical content). I don't equate that to the use of autotune to correct the tuning issues of most singers. It can sound bad when accentuated (Cher, T-pain etc), but it can be done tastefully, and almost unnoticeably. Like I said, I have no issue with using technology if that's what people want to do.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Dont reply wag. Hold back. The trolls have revealed themselves and are baiting now. Walk away.

Yeah Wags! Be a good little boy...Walk away

Hey better yet, why don't you and the other critics of Wags' music post some of your own stuff so we can hear it and then critique it?

Either you haven't read the thread or English is not your native language. Given our previous smooth dealings on the KVR marketplace, I'm going to assume it's the former.

To save you the hassle, I'll sum it up for you:

I happen to believe that Wags' use of Vocaloid ruins what I think are generally good pieces of music. A perfect example would be his prog. rock work, which aside from the fact that he just kinda threw it's real potential away, was ruined with that Vocaloid crap. And for the heinous crimes against Howard Jones, I will no longer click on his song links.

Now, it's very important to realise at this point that criticising Vocaloid for being crap is no slight on Steven, nor his talent. So why he and everyone else is taking that as some personal affront is for y'all to decide.

All I tried to encourage him to do was stop ruining a good foundation by having little interest in the Vocal presentation - A huge factor which seems to be stopping a lot of people appreciating his music. I'm paraphrasing, but I mentioned gourmet chef's ruining their creations by drowning them in ketchup. Not an analogy I would use if I wanted to just troll or unnecessarily criticise his work.

As for my music: I could bore you to tears with everything I thought was wrong with it That's probably why I have all but stopped making any. But hey, I don't mind you having a listen. I may not be comfortable song-bombing every thread, but I am not hiding it either. Just click on my signature, and fill yer boots

Yes, I read the thread and yes, English is my native tongue.

To sum it up from me:

I will no longer click on his song links

Do this!

Why click on something that you know you are not going to like? Wags clearly state that there are Vocaloid vocals so he is giving you fair warning. That is sort of like drinking from a bottle with the skull and crossbones on it and then complaining it poisoned you.

As for whether it stops people from listening to his music is not the issue; the issue is that this thread is about SOC and not Wagtune's tunes. Wags should not have posted it here in the first place, rather posted it in Music Cafe and placed a link to it and that's where about 40% of this thread belongs because you and others, commenting on it and then fighting over it, have derailed this thread.

[plexuss]

As for whether it stops people from listening to his music is not the issue; the issue is that this thread is about SOC and not Wagtune's tunes. Wags should not have posted it here in the first place, rather posted it in Music Cafe and placed a link to it and that's where about 40% of this thread belongs because you and others, commenting on it and then fighting over it, have derailed this thread.

I disagree. Wag posted the track because he used SOC on it. I am always interested in hearing people's work where they used a particular plugin on it. Wags post was 100% relevant IMHO.

[stujomo]

Wags your songs are great, you will find a band to perform your songs.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I will no longer click on his song links

Do this!

Why click on something that you know you are not going to like? Wags clearly state that there are Vocaloid vocals so he is giving you fair warning. That is sort of like drinking from a bottle with the skull and crossbones on it and then complaining it poisoned you.

I haven't listened to the song posted in this thread, because...erm, like I said, "I will no longer click on his song links"

It was Local Man that started the discussion with a question about Vocaloid, and Wags replied to him. I then followed. And while I might have been blunt, I did manage to compliment him a couple of times in that reply. What followed was some tangential stuff with gas pump, in which I further clarified my disdain for a plugin. Scroll on a few posts and I'm apparently just a troll

But no, I didn't click on the song, and I'm not complaining because I did something I said I wouldn't do

As for whether it stops people from listening to his music is not the issue; the issue is that this thread is about SOC and not Wagtune's tunes.

You are right, of course. I did try to explain that without any context there is no value in posting the music. He may as well have posted, "Listen what my music sounds like when I'm wearing brown socks".

However, there is a broader point that I made, that if you are the kind of person who values having an audience for your music, then constantly doing something that stops people from listening might be worth exploring.

Wags should not have posted it here in the first place, rather posted it in Music Cafe and placed a link to it and that's where about 40% of this thread belongs because you and others, commenting on it and then fighting over it, have derailed this thread.

Well, threads are kinda organic. A certain amount of derailing is normal. Also, if posting a music example can provide some clarity, then no problem. However, this is not a good example of that. Without any context it is unclear what effect the plug is having.