Why you left Ableton?

[Vladislav_Gronk]

Honestly, I hope Ableton doesn't listen to some of the complains here because not everyone wants this to be changed. I really like the 2D design of Ableton Live and its lack of color schemes. For me it is much easier to read and shows a lot more thought on the design part than Bitwig does. Sometimes less is more.

Hopefully they listen to my complaint of the poor PDC and fix that, although they've had 10 versions to do it so I'm not getting my hopes up. We'll see what they've been working on these past months of no big updates.

[oonabe]

Hopefully they listen to my complaint of the poor PDC and fix that, although they've had 10 versions to do it so I'm not getting my hopes up. We'll see what they've been working on these past months of no big updates.

What's PDC? I'm not very familiar with English abbreviations... what I also hope is they implement MPE some day not too far away in the future

[jonljacobi]

Erasing record of having stooped to Trancit's level.

[Trancit]

All hail Lord Trancit! You smug moron. ...

[JoaquinAce]

Hopefully they listen to my complaint of the poor PDC and fix that, although they've had 10 versions to do it so I'm not getting my hopes up. We'll see what they've been working on these past months of no big updates.

What's PDC? I'm not very familiar with English abbreviations... what I also hope is they implement MPE some day not too far away in the future

Public Display of Corruption?

[Trancit]

Hopefully they listen to my complaint of the poor PDC and fix that, although they've had 10 versions to do it so I'm not getting my hopes up. We'll see what they've been working on these past months of no big updates.

As they already revisited this part (and improved it a lot) in (can´t remember) 9.xxx ...I fear that´s as good as it can get in Ableton...

The only issue left is the order of plugins on a single track...
You strictly have to keep automated or transport synced plugins before any latency plugins...
Following this rule everything runs fine...

I wouldn´t settle too many hopes in any further improvement... if this would be easily possible they would have done it back then as many people were claiming for improvements...

I think the reason is Abletons buffering system which got the advantage that the audio engine runs rock solid... it´s nearly impossible to force Ableton to produce any clicks or pops no matter what you do or throw at it while playback runs...

Bitwig is already a different topic... very good latency compensation with the cost of a quite weak audio engine... it´s nearly impossible to make Bitwig NOT producing any clicks or pops even with simple actions like soloing a track...

[JoaquinAce]

Sure, I've just never been one for rules, or preachiness ( I hope anyway ).
It's impossible not to enter a thread on DAW comparison 101, and say what you said without coming across like you're imparting wisdom, without knowing why or if, it's important that someone would look around at other DAWs.

Good post . I have heard people say they can't (or won't) learn the controls for more than one DAW, which I completely understand, but I like using 2 or sometimes 3 DAWS. However, I just couldn't get along with Ableton as well as I did with Bitwig. And I tried, I tried hard to be efficient with Ableton, but something didn't click. I don't know what it was, maybe because I already worked often in Cubase? Not sure. What is a fascinating topic is why some people prefer one DAW over the other when it is not a technical issue. Is it plain old aesthetic preferences? For me personally, I don't have an aesthetic preference for Bitwig over Ableton and vice versa. So it must be something else. On a side note, I would like to see a really large project in Bitwig and how it's handled. My main mixing is still done in Cubase, sound design in Bitwig, sometimes I use FL studio for collaboration and Studio One to think around.

[Vladislav_Gronk]

What's PDC? I'm not very familiar with English abbreviations... what I also hope is they implement MPE some day not too far away in the future

Plugin Delay Compensation. Agreed, it's hard for me going back to non-MPE DAW's after using Bitwig.

The only issue left is the order of plugins on a single track...
You strictly have to keep automated or transport synced plugins before any latency plugins...
Following this rule everything runs fine...

Yeah, that usually works fine. The problem is when you want to have some synced effect (eg. LFO Tool for sidechaining) on a group and constantly have to be aware of the latency added from the child tracks.

[machinesworking]

...Just opening a VST GUI when you first look at Bitwig is a game of chance, no logical thinking person would predict that the Bitwig team would think what looks like a TV monitor icon in the sub window would be an instrument?? This one just is so far towards WTF?

You're grasping at straws here.

The icon obviously represents a "computer window" - the chin is on top, not the bottom; have you ever seen a computer monitor??? Clicking it brings a pop-up window for Bitwig's devices: the VST window for plugin wrapper device and detailed windows for its own native stuff (e.g. oscillascope, eq-5, grid, the synths):


B.png


Meanwhile in Live the same operation is carried out by clicking a "cog" that typically is associated with options/settings, so how THIS is not a WTF moment for you? Not to mention there's lack of consistency, because a bigger window for native devices is invoked with a triangle icon:


A.png

Yeah, I don't even know where to begin? How in the hell does a computer monitor, which I clearly stated it was supposed to represent, in any way make sense as an icon to call up Diva's GUI? I recognize that they seem to have used the generic icon Ableton uses to indicate it's own built in devices in the browser, but that to begin with was a dumb idea IMO. Not sure why you're calling a wrench a cog? unless that's a native to your region term for a crescent wrench? A tool makes sense to call up a GUI, a male electrical wall icon makes the most sense, but a wrench denotes action.
Because of this I did not spend any amount of time looking for the wrench icon to open the GUI in Live, a wrench is a tool you use to teak something with, it's a clear indicator that it's going to call up settings or parameters. Bitwig has seemingly random icon use, in the browser instruments get a little piano icon that calls up or is used to drag into the tracks. On a track this icon is Input Monitoring.
This isn't the only WTF moment in Bitwig, what's with the tiny faders? why give them no handle? In Live you can stretch the faders to about a third of the monitor. Live has huge UX issues to me, specifically around key commands, an overt reliance on sub windows and mousing, but to even pretend for a second that Bitwig doesn't have some as well is just crazy.

[machinesworking]

Sure, I've just never been one for rules, or preachiness ( I hope anyway ).
It's impossible not to enter a thread on DAW comparison 101, and say what you said without coming across like you're imparting wisdom, without knowing why or if, it's important that someone would look around at other DAWs.

Good post . I have heard people say they can't (or won't) learn the controls for more than one DAW, which I completely understand, but I like using 2 or sometimes 3 DAWS. However, I just couldn't get along with Ableton as well as I did with Bitwig. And I tried, I tried hard to be efficient with Ableton, but something didn't click. I don't know what it was, maybe because I already worked often in Cubase? Not sure. What is a fascinating topic is why some people prefer one DAW over the other when it is not a technical issue. Is it plain old aesthetic preferences? For me personally, I don't have an aesthetic preference for Bitwig over Ableton and vice versa. So it must be something else. On a side note, I would like to see a really large project in Bitwig and how it's handled. My main mixing is still done in Cubase, sound design in Bitwig, sometimes I use FL studio for collaboration and Studio One to think around.

I've used Ableton Live for well over a decade, and IMO maybe it's Ableton's demand that you work with it like it wants you to work with it. From having the tracks information on the right hand side of the screen, to total reliance on sub windows for editing, to no tool pallet, limited keyboard shortcuts, to having to set up VST parameters yourself, to a single e automation type, to until recently only a 4/4 metronome.. Live decides how you're going to approach it.
I still appreciate it, but I think for some of us, different doesn't always translate to better.

[claudedefaren]

...

[Kongru]

Can't we all just appreciate for a moment the beauty of how differently we can process information and visual language?

No, you're wrong. The only acceptable way is subtle 3D!!!!!!!!!!!!

[claudedefaren]

...

[tooneba]

Ableton's demand that you work with it like it wants you to work with it.
Live decides how you're going to approach it.

more like Authoriton Live

[oonabe]

TV ICONS OR GTFO!!!! I WANT TO WATCH TV!!!!!

Actually I'm with that one dude on that — when I demod bitwig it took me too long to figure out how to open the plugin window

That's also one thing I don't specially like on some programs, when they decide to hide functions behind icons that could mean a lot to things.