Tal J-8

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Crap, one more bug! None of the presets are completely clipping my DAW, blowing my speakers, and leaving me with no headroom. Patrick should increase the master volume of all presets so they're fully in the red.

No, seriously. Thanks for being one of the few new synths to leave plenty of headroom in the presets. It's appreciated!

[mholloway]

Not sure how it was on the hardware, but I find it odd that the velocity sensitivity slider for the filter works the other way round as the one for the amp. I.e. with the amp one, when set to max, I have to hit the key very hard to get the same sound as with the min setting, while with the filter one the harder I hit the key, the further away I get from the sound at the min setting.

Simple: the hardware had no velocity sensitivity

The AMP velocity scales the level. The filter velocity, on the other hand, is absolute: using it directly affects filter cutoff, rather than scaling the env > filter slider. His Juno emulation behaves the same way.

It's pretty standard to have amp modulators scale the Amp level, though, since Env + Amp settings are an expected, hardwired thing. Shrug.

[EvilDragon]

Not sure how it was on the hardware, but I find it odd that the velocity sensitivity slider for the filter works the other way round as the one for the amp. I.e. with the amp one, when set to max, I have to hit the key very hard to get the same sound as with the min setting, while with the filter one the harder I hit the key, the further away I get from the sound at the min setting.

Hmmm unsure if I understand you correctly, it seems to work fine here. EXCEPT it seems if you adjust vel sensitivity and you have env 1 linked to filter cutoff, it actually multiplies velocity with env 1, even if you have zero env mod applied. That doesn't sound right, because if you flip to env 2 being linked to cutoff, it doesn't do the same thing. Some things are more equal than others? Velocity > cutoff doesn't do this on RC version...

[mholloway]

Guys, the original had no Velocity sliders....

Just like with TAL's Juno, the Velocity slider for the filter connects directly to the filter cutoff, and controls it relative to its current setting. It's not a scalar of the Filter Envelope Amount slider.

[zvenx]

lol

Btw that setting I believe is per layer.....
rsp

[zvenx]

Addendum: Actually could make Arturia as dead as TAL, but not by using JP-8 only features. There are 6 "voice dispersion" trimmers, and you can deaden everything if you just set them all to 0. Still, not in the "default featureset", I suppose. Then again, Condition slider in RC Jupiter isn't "default featureset" either - but even with using it you cannot get it that dead. Which is a GOOD THING.

Even after freshly hitting the Tune button in the hardware were they ever perfectly in sync frequency wise?
rsp

Nope. It's a VCO analog, there's always voltage and temperature drifts that are different between the two oscillators... The only way you would get them DEAD is by flipping the sync switch on.

Even two seconds after hitting the tune button? hmmm
rsp

[EvilDragon]

Guys, the original had no Velocity sliders....

Just like with TAL's Juno, the Velocity slider for the filter connects directly to the filter cutoff, and controls it relative to its current setting. It's not a scalar of the Filter Envelope Amount slider.

Dude just try it. Default patch, set cutoff to 5, keep filter env mod to 0, raise up filter vel sense and set env 1 decay to like 5. Velocity totally scales the envelope 1 here. Now set env 2 to be linked to filter cutoff. Same thing doesn't happen. Bug? Intended? Dunno. But it doesn't feel right. Or, if it should be like this and is intended, then it should behave the same if env 2 was selected for cutoff modulation...

[EvilDragon]

Even two seconds after hitting the tune button? hmmm
rsp

Nope. Not 2 seconds, 20 secons or whatever. True VCOs are never in perfect phase lock unless you hardsync them.

lol

Btw that setting I believe is per layer.....
rsp

Which one, max poly? No, that one is global.

[zvenx]

Crap, one more bug! None of the presets are completely clipping my DAW, blowing my speakers, and leaving me with no headroom. Patrick should increase the master volume of all presets so they're fully in the red.

No, seriously. Thanks for being one of the few new synths to leave plenty of headroom in the presets. It's appreciated!

Lol
oh dear.
i had asked him to put a boost button in all his synths so that those of us, like me who want it louder can just simply have that in global .
Either way as an option we would both be happy.
rsp

[Niowiad]

Assuming different units could sound exactly the same right out of the factory in the early 80's, after 40 years of wear and tear at different temperature and humidity levels, I'd definitely and honestly be interested in seeing if two synths could be calibrated to sound and look the same under testing/analysis equipment. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Of course, if that doesn't sound quite correct it's because there's a missing piece - components which CAN'T be calibrated, but which still influence the signal chain.

I didn't explicitly list it, but I assumed it would also be a part of the problem.
Good thing to point out in any case.

Anyway, this shifted a bit over the last couple exchanges.
My initial point was about the common tendency in forums/youtube of taking whatever piece of vintage hardware gear someone owns (being a synthesizer rather than compressor), and arbitrarily using it to assess the quality of a software emulation, without taking the condition and calibration variables into account.
And the thing is, this happens between software emulations as well, with the same underlying issue.

When I said there's no universal reference I should have added "in actuality", probably.
Gear is (thankfully) modelled under imperfect conditions, forum/youtube comparisons are made under unequal conditions in the almost totality of cases, not under factory calibration specifications (as you also said, users don't bother, which is perfectly fine).

Back to my initial and only point... if those Repro filter variations from two different units were placed on emulations from different companies, people would be fast to assume company-A made it right and company-B made it wrong or half-assed it, when they're both good and right emulations.
Same thing here with the Arturia/TAL Jupiter, or the Synapse/Arturia OB-Xa.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Crap, one more bug! None of the presets are completely clipping my DAW, blowing my speakers, and leaving me with no headroom. Patrick should increase the master volume of all presets so they're fully in the red.

No, seriously. Thanks for being one of the few new synths to leave plenty of headroom in the presets. It's appreciated!

Lol
oh dear.
i had asked him to put a boost button in all his synths so that those of us, like me who want it louder can just simply have that in global .
Either way as an option we would both be happy.
rsp

Considering we live in a world where so many plugins are calibrated for levels between -18 and -12dbfs, I much appreciate not having to jack the volume down between each preset. Not to mention if interfacing with hardware. I say the opposite! Want it louder? Turn your monitors up! Best thing I ever learned was "monitor loud, mix low."

[zvenx]

Even two seconds after hitting the tune button? hmmm
rsp

Nope. Not 2 seconds, 20 secons or whatever. True VCOs are never in perfect phase lock unless you hardsync them.

lol

Btw that setting I believe is per layer.....
rsp

Which one, max poly? No, that one is global.

[zvenx]

Crap, one more bug! None of the presets are completely clipping my DAW, blowing my speakers, and leaving me with no headroom. Patrick should increase the master volume of all presets so they're fully in the red.

No, seriously. Thanks for being one of the few new synths to leave plenty of headroom in the presets. It's appreciated!

Lol
oh dear.
i had asked him to put a boost button in all his synths so that those of us, like me who want it louder can just simply have that in global .
Either way as an option we would both be happy.
rsp

Considering we live in a world where so many plugins are calibrated for levels between -18 and -12dbfs, I much appreciate not having to jack the volume down between each preset. Not to mention if interfacing with hardware. I say the opposite! Want it louder? Turn your monitors up! Best thing I ever learned was "monitor loud, mix low."

What works for you may not work for me.
A boost global option would work for both of us.
rsp

[EvilDragon]

Aha so if you set max poly to 8 it's 8 for both upper and lower, so ACTUAL max poly is 16. OK that's confusing and unlike the original

[zvenx]

Aha so if you set max poly to 8 it's 8 for both upper and lower, so ACTUAL max poly is 16. OK that's confusing and unlike the original

Yes, I had asked him about this during testing. (which is why I said it confidently )
rsp