One Synth Challenge #178: Vaporizer2 by Vast Dynamics (Exponent1 Wins!)

[empphryio]

Hi all,

IMO leaving public comments is a bad idea primarily because it can influence voting, but indeed can cause other problems. Imagine going to a voting booth and having to listen to everyone around you muttering about this or that candidate and this or that proposition.

Those who have benefitted from discussions in the past are most likely recalling deep discussions, not off-the-cuff comments of seven words or less made in the hallway while people pass by each other.

There is the avenue of PMs on KVR Audio for making private comments, and I think that this is far better in that it allows for more expression than mere snippets, in addition to being more personal.

You can lock your soundcloud comments if they bother you so much. It's under permissions. I don't agree with anything you've said but locking your comments should cover it.

[ELEX]

IMO leaving public comments is a bad idea primarily because it can influence voting, but indeed can cause other problems. Imagine going to a voting booth and having to listen to everyone around you muttering about this or that candidate and this or that proposition.

Yet that's exactly how modern day democracies work: bombarding voters with opinions, opinions and then some opinions. Followed by more opinions. Some muttered, some whispered, most shouted instead. Not to mention outright propaganda and mudslinging. The influence of OSC commenting is negligible by comparison. Commenting may also be viewed as a way to socialize a bit, without any need to get into extended silly discussions like this one. We're not suffering from lack of personality to the extent of being influenced by every tiny comment, are we ? I simply trust we're not.

[doctorbob]

When reviewing tracks, if I agree (or disagree) with a comment I say so ... not afraid to say what I think and what I think might improve the track. All IMHO of course ...

I doubt the comments change the voting in any major way (foolish to suggest it won't sway some opinion), and so I do try to comment on all tracks, irrespective of genre, personal taste, or whether I understand it or not. Some comments will be objective some subjective ... all depends!

dB

[Carl_saved]

IMO leaving public comments is a bad idea primarily because it can influence voting, but indeed can cause other problems. Imagine going to a voting booth and having to listen to everyone around you muttering about this or that candidate and this or that proposition.

I can fully feel this point. When I was new to OSC (many years back) I felt the same. To my surprise, very few other people were bothered by this and at some point I seem to have come to a similar conclusion as ELEX. People seem to be happy to socialise a little, either not caring about the influence it has on voting (which I won't deny) or valuing it higher than accurate/unbiased voting. It really depends on what you think is the core goal of the OSC, so I think there's no strict right or wrong. I, personally, have come to appreciate the commenting mostly.

Those who have benefitted from discussions in the past are most likely recalling deep discussions, not off-the-cuff comments of seven words or less made in the hallway while people pass by each other.

This is true. Short comments usually aren't very helpful. On the upside, they provide an opportunity to ask the commenter for clarification/elaboration, which most people will happily provide (I think) -- either directly in the comments or via PM. I have profited from this myself I think it was henessey who gave a hint to me which I value very much to this day

[violator_alba]

I have to admit that I rarely comment as I feel a bit unqualified (only been doing this for under two years). That and hanging around near the bottom... Having said that, I do sometimes comment if a track reminds me of something else I like.

[abot81]

The worst is when you come in close to last and no one leaves any critical comments.

Someone should write an article about that. "What to do when everyone apparently dislikes your music and they won't say why".

Totally agree on this one, but that’s my personal preference - I like the criticism, but I know others don’t.

So on the other side I find myself not commenting on the ones I dislike for fear of hurting someone’s work.

[VCA-089]

Voted!

[zipidowski]

I have to admit that I rarely comment as I feel a bit unqualified (only been doing this for under two years). That and hanging around near the bottom... Having said that, I do sometimes comment if a track reminds me of something else I like.

Yep, I have the same situation.

I like receiving constructive criticism. Sometimes you can't see (hear) the obvious until it's been said out loud. And it has helped me. Like comments: less is more, too repetitive, harsh low-/highend, too much/less dynamics, modulate sound etc.

I'm usually at the bottom end of the table based on the results, and rightfully so. There are many fellow competitors who have been making music for years and make really good music. I don't assume I'll be on their level right away, especially since there's so little time each month to spend making music.

Sure, it's nice to get positive feedback, but it's more valuable to get information on which things I could be improved.

[zipidowski]

And I have voted

[empphryio]

I'm just as interested to hear feedback from anyone. I'm curious if my cat likes it even. He always wants to be with me even as I'm blasting it so maybe.

....not to mention if you only care about impressing your fellow composers with your 27 key changes that the unwashed masses find impenetrable, Soviet Russia would send you to Siberia, I think.

[IV!]

It's sad when there are no clear comments under the tracks at the bottom of the list that would clarify this position for the composer. It is also sad when these comments are there, but the composer cannot accept this criticism and leaves us, perhaps with wounds on his heart and a heaviness on his soul, and we can no longer fix anything. It's always a double-edged sword:

- On the one hand, there are clear criteria for the quality of music in general and specific genres in particular, and often the majority can agree on what they like and dislike, and why.
- On the other hand, every artwork is priceless in the fact of its existence, most people can make mistakes, and in general we cannot talk about right and wrong in music, because everything is subjective.

Eventually, I think it all comes down to having the courage to accept critical comments and the courage to write critical comments. I mean, in theory, a strong personality can take criticism into account without a drop in self-esteem. But we all have different personality strengths and different perception patterns for different reasons, and we cannot accuse someone of being unable to criticize and accept criticism. Therefore, I believe that we will not find a quick universal way to solve all problems with commenting in a way that is suitable for everyone.

The best solution, IMHO, is a personal approach to everyone. We should all have the courage to fully express our opinions about the music of other participants, but with the addition of a question about how the participant feels about this comment. Yes, at first it will be a little extra text from you and a lot of the same type of questions to you, but this will allow us to understand each other and ourselves as quickly and fully as possible and establish communication.

I don't mean a utopia (or dystopia) where everyone writes to each other and everyone is happy about it! I mean, it is often with detailed comments that friendship and fruitful correspondence between the participants begins. I mean, you can find like-minded people here who would otherwise just be afraid to write to you for fear of hurting your feelings. And after 1-2 months, you are already fruitfully communicating and freely exchanging opinions with 2-3 people from the community, and your regular last places become not a heavy burden of loneliness and misunderstanding, but your membership card to the Elite Club of Unrecognized Musical Experimenters, for example!) I think it's much better than the burden of a beginner who, after making a few tracks and receiving zero feedback, left disappointed...

[abot81]

Voted

[DaveClark]

You can lock your soundcloud comments if they bother you so much. It's under permissions. I don't agree with anything you've said but locking your comments should cover it.

This is not a solution to the problem I actually raised. Everybody would have to lock their comments. That is not going to happen unless made a rule. Even then, locking comments is available only for Pro and Next Pro, which does include my account, but probably not everyone's account.

My comments were not about bothering me, but upsetting the voting process.

Yet that's exactly how modern day democracies work: bombarding voters with opinions, opinions and then some opinions. Followed by more opinions. Some muttered, some whispered, most shouted instead. Not to mention outright propaganda and mudslinging.

Inside the voting booth? I think not.


The question about efficacy of comments is this: Is there any reason for preferring short, public, drive-by-shooting type of comments *in preference to* detailed, private comments? This is hard to justify given the widely acknowledged problems with the former.

[DaveClark]

...
If your plugin (or your modified version of an open source plugin) is not publicly released, that seems like a problem.
...
Adding synthesis capabilities to your own personal version doesn't seem acceptable, even if you made it public.

I would have said the same thing: another person would need to be able to open the project, which would be impossible if the synth has been modified to be a completely different one, for all intents and purposes.

Thanks for your replies.

Again, I'm OK with either way, but I find it interesting that the same objections to modifying open-source synths and effects plugins provided so far can be lodged against the existing set of rules.

For example: Presets or sets of sounds that are created by a contestant or modified from factory presets are also not available to everyone, nor are effects presets created by contestants. So perhaps contestants should be restricted to use of unmodified factory presets to set a more level playing field. (No doubt this rule would be unpopular.)

The clause "3rd party effects must be easily available freeware" could with equal prejudice be read as applying only to the beginning of the month, i.e. to the starting line.

Please do keep in mind that allowing modifications of code during any one-month contest is unlikely to have any practical effect, no "completely different one, for all intents and purposes" in the short run. But it may lead to significant improvements in the long run.

[IV!]

Thanks for your replies.

Again, I'm OK with either way, but I find it interesting that the same objections to modifying open-source synths and effects plugins provided so far can be lodged against the existing set of rules.

For example: Presets or sets of sounds that are created by a contestant or modified from factory presets are also not available to everyone, nor are effects presets created by contestants. So perhaps contestants should be restricted to use of unmodified factory presets to set a more level playing field. (No doubt this rule would be unpopular.)

This is a lot about the essence of the challenge - creating your own presets is the basis of your unique music!) Why then is this not applicable to changing the synthesizer code? Why not? I even think that if someone undertook to fix or improve something in the synthesizer of the month, posting their versions for all participants, it would often be great! If you wanted to use the improved version alone, that wouldn't be great. Also, one problem was revealed by the Wavetable round, in which the developer added new effects in the middle of the month - yes, we all have the whole month, but everyone has their own free time limits, and someone can make a track only in the first week, and someone only in the last week, so it would be great to have one set of functions in the synthesizer during the whole month)

The clause "3rd party effects must be easily available freeware" could with equal prejudice be read as applying only to the beginning of the month, i.e. to the starting line.

This is usually the case, isn't it?) Of course, interesting plugins may come out within a month, but they will also be available to everyone at the same time, and we usually tell each other about interesting ones ourselves. Also, many have time-tested and favorite plugins that are used more often than others, and this is also part of the uniqueness of each participant.

Please do keep in mind that allowing modifications of code during any one-month contest is unlikely to have any practical effect, no "completely different one, for all intents and purposes" in the short run. But it may lead to significant improvements in the long run.

In the long run, no one forbids anyone to work with open source, that's the essence of open source. If you mean someone who can be better motivated in the OSC month, then your point of view would be clearer with a specific example. Usually, everything is only for the prompt repair of the synthesizer by the developer during OSC - for a month he has a powerful team of beta testers and many use it. If it wasn't the developer, then the situation might not have changed in essence, and your changes were met with a bang, until these changes add new effects and synthesis types right in the middle of the challenge)