SynthMaster 3 Official Thread: SynthMaster 3/Player v3.4.9 Rev 17271 update

[Teksonik]

since our last poll on our facebook users group showed that most of our users use presets,

Most of your users on Facebook. Now run the same poll on KVR and other similar music production sites and see how many people only use presets to the point that a player version would be needed.

Then run a poll and see how important stability in a plugin is to users.

[kv331]

Now run the same poll on KVR and other similar music production sites and see how many people only use presets to the point that a player version would be needed.

kvr poll.jpg

[Teksonik]

So just 2% only use presets while a combined 50% either prefer to make their own sounds (17%) or use a combination of presets and their own sounds (33%).

At any rate SM3 already has a "player" version. It's called the "Browser Tab". Just stay on that tab and everything a player could do is already available:

SM3 Browser Full.png

So instead of spending time making a player version (which will only add more support and maintenance work) why not improve the existing browser?

For example, looking at the image above what is the current browser's biggest weakness? We can only see 20 presets at at time without having to scroll. Most of the space is taken up with the Instrument Type, Attributes, Styles, and Preset Details.

The actual presets themselves take a back seat to all the other elements. For example in Rob Papen's Blue 3 it shows 135 patches at a glace when the Search Categories function is hidden and 80 patches when the search function is open.

So to me it makes more sense to improve SM3 for 100% of the users instead of spending time on a player for only a fraction of the user base when that function already exists.

[Brando]

Yes I agree with Teksonik here. In fact personally I think the problem is that the presets have been available for way too cheap, and now free. I confess to having them all but only because they were available for a ridiculously cheap price (after my ridiculously cheap upgrade to 3). I wouldn't download a player version when you release it, Bulent. I have the functionality I need in SM3. You have replaced my need for SM1 and SM2 by making SM3 a super upgrade of those 2 including their preset import. The geni is out of the bottle but I think charging for presets and version upgrades for SM3 is the only viable "new" revenue stream. Preserving the price point by improving SM3's stability and cleaning up the workflow would help to build the customer base. The browser would be an excellent place to start. I can only imagine the real challenges you face every day. Clearly it's your passion and I'm super happy you've put so much love into it. SM3 is part of my S1 template that I start every project with.

[zvenx]

Hmmm.. I think there are two somewhat separate considerations.

1. How to keep your current customers happy.

2. How to draw in new customers.


With all the specials and constant low price sales, for those who are in Section 2 but like to program their own sounds, a player would have little or no appeal for them. For those who like to use presets with or without minor tweaks, a stable player with the right tweak-ability may indeed help draw new users in.

I think both Brando and Teksonik (and me) fall into the first category, and indeed for us I doubt the Player would have any appeal or interest for us.

But I think you should do what you think you need to do to survive Bulent.

Personally I think part of the issue why there may be a hard time, is sadly especially with SM2 and to some degree SM One, from my own use and what I have read online there was huge issues with stability, and often a long time between fixes. Whilst for me SM3 has been much more stable and the fixes come much quicker, I have to be honest I am still suffering from PTSD and afraid to get too attached to SM3 just in case with deeper use I find issues with stability.. Any plugin that isn't stable and fixes take awhile to arrive, I have taken out of my Prime Time Use Plugins list..
I also think and I have said this before, with all the sales etc... many may view the plugin as a cheap synth not to be taken seriously, which is indeed a pity..
my two cents.
rsp

[Held]

I think focusing on UX and polishing the interface is going to make the biggest difference. The same is true for the website. SM3 sounds great, has similar features, and is way cheaper than Serum or Phase Plant. So why isn't it selling?

Because it looks unpolished and has a ton of bugs. Presentation matters a lot. Putting out a cheap looking preset player for cheap is probably not going to convince a lot of people either.

Focusing on stability and UX for a year or two would probably be great. At the moment, it feels like each update introduces almost as many bugs as it fixes.

SM3 has so many features already, but they are a pain to use. I use SM3 it, but I'm also a bit of a masochist. Most people aren't, and they use the safe option everyone else uses. And why shouldn't they, if it sounds as good, but feels much better.

[kv331]

So instead of spending time making a player version (which will only add more support and maintenance work) why not improve the existing browser?

For example, looking at the image above what is the current browser's biggest weakness? We can only see 20 presets at at time without having to scroll. Most of the space is taken up with the Instrument Type, Attributes, Styles, and Preset Details.

This is as good as it gets for now

Preset Browser New Look.jpg

[ThomasHelzle]

Here's what I can do in the short term to alleviate this issue:
Preset Browser New Look.jpg

Not sure I like that.
I never had the problem Teksonik describes and actually prefer the current layout and found the preset browser one of the strengths of Synthmaster.

Maybe a larger user sample would be better for changes like this?
Or is that a request you hear often?

[Held]

This is as good as it gets for now

I have to agree with ThomasHelzle. I don't think that change is going to help much. The tagging and filtering already works really well. I think 3 columns will make make things just more confusing and I miss attributes/styles.

I guess you could add both views, but that's more to maintain and more potential bugs.

[] Peter:H []

I agree with you both. Bülent, please add a donation option to your shop. It would be sad to see you going out of business.

+1 for the donation.

And just some additional thoughts: I recently digged deeper into SM3. It's so hilariously feature rich and deep, but my personal gut feeling is that I'm faster with vital because the features feel "more accessible" to me.
Especially the mod matrix, I find well designed in vital. One page everything on it ...
Anyways that's just many words to say: Yes, please invest in the UI/UX.
Ah ... and may be get a little more YT reviews. I recently watched Dash Glitch video about the Wavetable Editor which immediately made me bring up an instance of synthmaster and play around with it myself

[robert_p]

Here's what I can do in the short term to alleviate this issue:
Preset Browser New Look.jpg

Not sure I like that.
I never had the problem Teksonik describes and actually prefer the current layout and found the preset browser one of the strengths of Synthmaster.

Maybe a larger user sample would be better for changes like this?
Or is that a request you hear often?

I also prefer the current browser - it works fine for me with the mouse scroll wheel, and I see more sound banks and tags on the left side than in the proposed browser.

[whassup]

I agree with you both. Bülent, please add a donation option to your shop. It would be sad to see you going out of business.

+1 for the donation.

And just some additional thoughts: I recently digged deeper into SM3. It's so hilariously feature rich and deep, but my personal gut feeling is that I'm faster with vital because the features feel "more accessible" to me.
Especially the mod matrix, I find well designed in vital. One page everything on it ...
Anyways that's just many words to say: Yes, please invest in the UI/UX.
Ah ... and may be get a little more YT reviews. I recently watched Dash Glitch video about the Wavetable Editor which immediately made me bring up an instance of synthmaster and play around with it myself

This!

[Teksonik]

This is as good as it gets for now

That's better! 57 patches at a glance. To me the more scrolling a browser requires the less efficient it is in the long run.

As long as the patch names are pre-tagged like Arp,Bas,Led, etc they are naturally sorted by type.

Sometimes I just like looking at a large list of patches especially my own as that lets me find patches easier when I'm not really sure what I'm after. "Oooh I remember that patch now, let me try it in this track" and so on.

[cvieira]

Hello.

Midi learn its not working with me

Im using an Yamaha CS6x as a controller.

Any tips ?

Thanks

[] Peter:H []

@kv331 "UX" for complex software.
What I found interesting is "guided tours mode" that you sometimes see in web guis. think of a ui that opens and there are for instance yellow markers placed at certain "interesting" spots directly in the ui. click at for instance "(1) hand draw wavetable" ...
Because at first I was searching for the drawing tools. Intuitively I was looking for a drawing tools palette only to find out that it is a simple drop down.

By the way "Wavetable Editor". You mentioned above that many users only use presets. I think there's levels to this. I mean, some might edit patches but yet do not plan to create/edit wavetables. levels ate: all presets, patch edits while using factory wts only, full editing everything.
Why not create a seperate product out of a "SynthMaster Pro Wavetable Editor", which can be purchased seperately ... might be even helpfull for users of other wt synths?