Sad state of Native Instruments

[concealed identity]

The way I see it,

it's better than Roland Cloud.

From what I've heard about Roland Cloud, pretty much anything is better than Roland Cloud...even discussing at length about whether something is a library or a plugin.

[BBFG#]

The way I see it,

it's better than Roland Cloud.

From what I've heard about Roland Cloud, pretty much anything is better than Roland Cloud...even discussing at length about whether something is a library or a plugin.

Really more of a six of one, half dozen of the other there.
The subjective choice of whether the customer prefers to bend over or be on their knees.

[rasmusklump]

You're the one saying the instruments in Kontakt are plugins right? because that, is all I'm commenting on here. They aren't plugins, they're instruments as per NI's nomenclature.

They're both.

No, they're not. Simple as that.
It's fascinating with how much confidence you write about stuff you obviously haven't the slightest clue about.

[rasmusklump]

By your logic a letter you wrote is a plugin as well as you need MS Word or Libreoffice Writer to open it.

[bluesawsq]

They're both. No idea why you think it's an either/or (or why you think NI is the final word on those terms)-?

Because they own Kontakt, it's their product to name.
I can't find a single reference anywhere to any sampler calling the audio files made into an instrument you load into them, anything but Instruments or libraries, or soundbanks etc. Not one instance where they call them plugins.

It's not any real skin off your back, and it is confusing how little unified naming conventions there are in the audio world, so not even anything to be ashamed about, but you're wrong here, that's all.

I agree, Kontakt Instruments are not plugins.
But see what NI did on new "Electric Keys -Tines Duo" product page:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ollection/
"this dynamic duo of electric piano VSTs gives you all the keys you need "
"Sound Category: Electric piano VST".

[Scoops]

Some time ago, when sampling became popular, people that were stringing together sample loops were calling themselves musicians (at least in the circle i was hanging in). I had great issue with that! I always felt that the human tactile ingredient was a necessary component, and stringing together loops was void of said ingredient. When sorting this out for myself, I came to understand that the basic ingredients of creating music is to have pitch and rhythm, which the "loopers" were creating, so I moved on. I didn't agree with "loopers" being musicians, but i didn't spend waking hours debating the issue.


My advice would be for those that are debating whose right and whose wrong, to just move on and spend that energy on making music, not continued debate.

[sjm]

It's strange that this debate is still raging. whyterabbyt has already explained what the distinction is - a plugin is an executable (i.e. code that includes instructions for the CPU to carry out) and libraries are data files that are loaded by a plugin. The two are in no way equivalent, and to equate the two is to midunderstand the fundamental difference between the two.

By your logic a letter you wrote is a plugin as well as you need MS Word or Libreoffice Writer to open it.

More on point, this would be calling your Word document "an MS Word" or "a word processor", which I think we can all agree is nonsense. MS Word is the application (executable). A word document is a data file that is saved and loaded from within MS Word. The two are clearly not equivalent.

[LFO8]

They're both. No idea why you think it's an either/or (or why you think NI is the final word on those terms)-?

Because they own Kontakt, it's their product to name.
I can't find a single reference anywhere to any sampler calling the audio files made into an instrument you load into them, anything but Instruments or libraries, or soundbanks etc. Not one instance where they call them plugins.

It's not any real skin off your back, and it is confusing how little unified naming conventions there are in the audio world, so not even anything to be ashamed about, but you're wrong here, that's all.

I agree, Kontakt Instruments are not plugins.
But see what NI did on new "Electric Keys -Tines Duo" product page:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ollection/
"this dynamic duo of electric piano VSTs gives you all the keys you need "
"Sound Category: Electric piano VST".

Yes, that is what the manufacturers want you to believe it is. With every piece of marketing imaging of the instrument never showing any piece of Kontakt. UVI does the same for their libraries..

[bluesawsq]

It's strange that this debate is still raging. whyterabbyt has already explained what the distinction is - a plugin is an executable (i.e. code that includes instructions for the CPU to carry out) and libraries are data files that are loaded by a plugin. The two are in no way equivalent, and to equate the two is to midunderstand the fundamental difference between the two.

The discussion continues here because it's part of the sad state of NI, the deceptive marketing and strange product development roadmaps. NI does not want users to understand the distinction. They would like users to think that Kontakt Instruments are equivalent to plugins.

[Echoes in the Attic]

There is one little distinction though why NI could call it a VST. Because if you don't have kontakt to load it in, you get kontakt player vst to play it. But stillbyeah it's a library.

[whyterabbyt]

There is one little distinction though why NI could call it a VST. Because if you don't have kontakt to load it in, you get kontakt player vst to play it. But stillbyeah it's a library.

Not in ProTools or Logic you dont.

Tinfoil-hat assertions about deliberate misrepresentation aside, this just reads like the person who wrote the blurb isnt as familiar with DAW and plugin tech as they should be. Subcontracted copywriter or similar.

[Echoes in the Attic]

There is one little distinction though why NI could call it a VST. Because if you don't have kontakt to load it in, you get kontakt player vst to play it. But stillbyeah it's a library.

Not in ProTools or Logic you dont.

Tinfoil-hat assertions about deliberate misrepresentation aside, this just reads like the person who wrote the blurb isnt as familiar with DAW and plugin tech as they should be. Subcontracted copywriter or similar.

Yeah I'd figure the same.

[aMUSEd]

Just sloppy marketing speak

[machinesworking]

One thing in anyones defense that gets confused by all this is if you have used more than one DAW you realize how little naming conventions actually exist. In Reaper MIDI and audio in the main arrangement area is called Items, in Logic it's Regions, in Live it's Clips etc. The clip launcher in Live is Session View, in Bitwig it's the Launcher, in DP it's Clip View, and Logic calls it the Loops Grid. The term arranger gets used for multiple things in various DAWs, rarely is it the same thing.

Instruments in a sampler might be one of the few naming conventions that isn't subject to the whims of the developer and company marketing department.

[mixyguy2]

My advice would be for those that are debating whose right and whose wrong, to just move on and spend that energy on making music, not continued debate.

Some of us have, while others.....well every village has them...

Regarding VSTs, that is a format or type of plugin, just as AU and AAX are. (Wait for it; someone's probably now going to step up and go "not uh! You is so stoopid, it's as simple as that" etc )