Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[Mac of BIOnighT]

I thought to make a Serum vs Icarus thread to gather opinions from people who actually use these two obviously competing products (I own neither of them but am interested in both) but I'm afraid it will turn into a total shitstorm and smartass replies fest.

Actually, that sounds like fun, especially if we give them weapons and they exterminate one another
I'm so very glad I don't give a damn about technicalities, I don't analyze any part of any synth, I don't waste time comparing this to that, but I only enjoy an instrument if it is musical and inspiring and - above all - I just make my music with whatever tool can help me...

[Mac of BIOnighT]

The whole Tone2 website is just awful.
..imho.

That all makes Icarus much less interesting... imho.

So let me get this straight: you don't use an instrument because you don't like the website?
Forgive me for saying this, but this takes the cake.

[OneOfManyPauls]

This statement is completely wrong!

Which bit's wrong? the bit where I say that *I* find icarus resynthesis to be better then serum, or the bit where I state the simple fact that icarus resynthesized plain oscillator samples better than serum?

I'm not sure why you think talking about singing samples and filters is a counter to this.

[OneOfManyPauls]

I'm so very glad I don't give a damn about technicalities, I don't analyze any part of any synth, I don't waste time comparing this to that, but I only enjoy an instrument if it is musical and inspiring and - above all - I just make my music with whatever tool can help me...

good for you. I am intrigued about your decision process though. If you don't use comparisons to decide on the tools you choose in the first place, do you roll a dice or do the blindfold-and-pin thing?

[Mac of BIOnighT]

I am intrigued about your decision process though. If you don't use comparisons to decide on the tools you choose in the first place, do you roll a dice or do the blindfold-and-pin thing?

Both, plus the weeny-meeny thing ;-P
I just try an instrument - if I like it, I use it, that's it.
When I have to pick a friend, I don't compare them to the other people I know and make a list of characteristics after analyzing them inside out: if I feel comfortable with them, they become my friends.

[xamido]

Finally tried Icarus demo and i'm liking it. This one have less of that Tone2 sound, and more of its own character. Once i have enough money, i'll buy it.

[Neon Breath]

Man this Icarus VS whatever synth thread turned so onerous to read.

[Neon Breath]

I thought to make a Serum vs Icarus thread to gather opinions from people who actually use these two obviously competing products (I own neither of them but am interested in both) but I'm afraid it will turn into a total shitstorm and smartass replies fest.

Those Synth X vs Synth Y threads are pointless anyway, especially the Synth X Y Z vs Virus or "which synth sound s like a Virus" threads...

Maybe for you, but not for all of us. It can save a thread getting too heavy with gibberish & over-analysed technicalities.

[OneOfManyPauls]

I am intrigued about your decision process though. If you don't use comparisons to decide on the tools you choose in the first place, do you roll a dice or do the blindfold-and-pin thing?

Both, plus the weeny-meeny thing ;-P
I just try an instrument - if I like it, I use it, that's it.
When I have to pick a friend, I don't compare them to the other people I know and make a list of characteristics after analyzing them inside out: if I feel comfortable with them, they become my friends.

I can get onboard with "if I like it, I use it, that's it" - but before investing time into getting to know an instrument, it makes sense to see if there's something better suited that covers the same ground.

Reviews are just the outsourcing of the comparison/analysis process.

[pdxindy]

FWIW as mentioned several times at least i had checked Serum several times and do not simply "dismiss" or "hype" it based on what others tell. For me Icarus is simply superior terms of sound, features, CPU use and also workflow (taht modulation system in Serum could actually confusing IMO).

The sound of Serum is just not for me. Too hard and aggressive. I definitely like Icarus more.

But workflow?? Serum modulation is better than Icarus for sure. And Icarus (Tone2 in general) does not have a very refined GUI workflow. For example, there is no fine control over parameters. Morph is 0-100 in integer steps. No finer possibility. Double click does not reset value. No possibility to type in a value. Selecting mod matrix sources/targets is from long scrolling lists. The mod matrix is 3 tiny tabs and in general there is quite a bit of tabbing. I would much rather have the whole bottom be a matrix tab that showed all matrix options instead of 3 tabs and having to switch back and forth between them.

I think Tone2 is behind other top developers in evolving GUI's for workflow. I'm planning to get Icarus anyway because the synth is powerful and sounds good and is easy enough to use.

[Yorrrrrr]

Somehow Serum has a sterile sound to me. I don't feel anything special with it. This Icarus, however, is the complete opposite. This one sounds excellent (is this the 'tone 2 sound' some people mention?). I wish it was a little cheaper though.

[OneOfManyPauls]

Double click does not reset value

cmd+click resets to default value - key+click is a common reset method for many soft-synths.

The mod matrix is 3 tiny tabs and in general there is quite a bit of tabbing

I find that a slightly odd complaint compared to serum.

At least you get to see 6 mod matrix settings in icarus from the main screen - you have to tab into a separate screen in serum to see that kind of detail. Plus icarus shows you 1 effect +eq + compressor/limiter in the main screen vs having to tab into a separate screen to see any in serum.

Tabbing is very much a part of using serum + icarus alike.

[pdxindy]

Double click does not reset value

cmd+click resets to default value - key+click is a common reset method for many soft-synths.

The mod matrix is 3 tiny tabs and in general there is quite a bit of tabbing

I find that a slightly odd complaint compared to serum.

At least you get to see 6 mod matrix settings in icarus from the main screen - you have to tab into a separate screen in serum to see that kind of detail. Plus icarus shows you 1 effect +eq + compressor/limiter in the main screen vs having to tab into a separate screen to see any in serum.

Tabbing is very much a part of using serum + icarus alike.

The drag-n-drop modulation makes Serum far faster. Icarus also has no visual modulation reference for most stuff. Besides that, I was not comparing the other GUI stuff but just criticizing Icarus by itself. I think Serum could be better as well. Serum also has too much tabbing.

Another thing I find annoying with Icarus, is the place you have to look to see the parameter value. Too small to easily see, no contrast, unintuitive location.

[OneOfManyPauls]

The drag-n-drop modulation makes Serum far faster. Icarus also has no visual modulation reference for most stuff. Besides that, I was not comparing the other GUI stuff but just criticizing Icarus by itself. I think Serum could be better as well. Serum also has too much tabbing.

Another thing I find annoying with Icarus, is the place you have to look to see the parameter value. Too small to easily see, no contrast, unintuitive location.

agree with all that.

[Ingonator]

For example, there is no fine control over parameters. Morph is 0-100 in integer steps. No finer possibility.

DOes not really work wit hteh Morph knob but with several other knobs you coudl hold the SHIFT key while adjsting values. This is especuiially helpful while adjusting the Wave knob, also to have a finer adjustment of interpolations between waveforms.

STRG + leftclick resets the parameter

Right-cicking opens the Midi Learn for that parameter (and then move teh controller to assign it there). Right clicking again closes MIDI Learn or removes the Midi Learn from that parameter.
If you asigne a controler the CC number is displayd at the center of the corresponding knob (inside a grey circle).